Protestant-Orthodox Relationship: The Moment That Defined It

In this video I describe a dialogue that took place in the 1570s and 1580s between Lutheran theologians from Tubingen and Jeremiah II, Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. I suggest that the Lutherans represent a better posture toward catholicity in the church today.

Truth Unites exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.

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00:00 - The Protestant-Orthodox Relationship
03:05 - 1) A Desire for Unity
04:29 - 2) Areas of Agreement
08:55 - 3) Differing Visions of Catholicity
15:56 - Concluding Appeal

[stevereason]

For the past 6 months I, as a Protestant born-again evangelical, have been studying Church history to help me understand how the split in Christendom occurred. My desire to know about the split resulted in re-reading our Lord's high priestly prayer in which He expresses that His followers are united as He and the Father are united. It grieves my heart that there is such a split in the body of Christ. I have read numerous articles and watched numerous Youtube videos from the perspectives of Roman Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants. Just last week your videos started popping up on my YouTube feed. Oh my gosh, what a blessing. I immediately subscribed after listening to the first video and told my wife I have found a Protestant of kindred spirit who has vast knowledge in Church history and communicates with a kind, humble spirit. I told my wife I learned a new word "Irenic"...YES!

Dr. Ortlund, thank you from the bottom of my heart for putting out these videos. I look forward to watching as many of your videos as possible. You are demonstrating for the body of Christ (Protestants, Roman Catholics and the Orthodox) the ministry of reconciliation with a spirit of love. Blessings upon you brother!!

[youcatastrophe]

Oh man this was good: “Irenicism is *not* compromise. It is *not* weakness. It’ll take all the strength you have.” 🔥 🔥 🔥

[nathanjustice]

Great video! I attended an Eastern Orthodox church service to see what it was like a year ago, and while I was talking with some of the members after the service, one of them mentioned this dialogue between the Patriarch and Lutheran theologians. He never mentioned where I could find it, so I'm glad you covered it in this video! Looking forward to reading it myself when I have some free time.

[HectorTheGr]

I’ll admit that I, all too often, can be the first one to get snarky in an online debate. I look back and I cringe. As a Protestant I really appreciate your videos and your kindness towards those who differ. Your videos offer great insights but also convict me of my un-Christ-like behavior sometimes. Lord have mercy. Thank you again for your channel. It is a blessing.

[natebozeman]

I LOVED your call to irenicism at the end! It's something you inspire me in. I temperamentally can be argumentative, and your consistent call to this truly has affected me.

[kriegjaeger]

Amazing how so little has changed haha. We have faster correspondence but the attitude issues are still most important!

Thank you for this!

[TharMan]

Gavin, thanks for taking on this very difficult subject!

[CamGaylorMusic]

I use to really struggle with finding the “one true church” your channel has been great for easing that anxiety in my life. I personally feel the best in the conservative Lutheran type of churches. If I had to choose a second choice it would probably be some sort of conservative Anglican. In the end though I think all the true believers are the one true church regardless of their denomination

[capturedbyannamarie]

All the content you put out is so fascinating, and I have learned so much!

[andrewbrossman]

I like your channel. Your respectable even in your debate.

[TheAutisticApologist]

I am not a Lutheran, but I have worshipped in a Lutheran church in the past and consider Lutherans my brothers in Christ. I am from a Christian Churches/Churches of Christ background myself, and used to attend Parkland Christian Church in Washington state, which for a time was holding its services on the campus of Pacific Lutheran University, so there was a lot of working and worshiping together going on, and I think we all learned much from each other. I see a lot more unity among various Protestant and Independent churches than I do between us and either Orthodox or Catholic (and I've bumped into the condescension from one of my Catholic friends so I can understand what the Tubingen brothers were dealing with).

[emenem]

Amen. True humility I heard that. Been studying HUMILITY and the more I look for it the less I see in myself and the body of the church. It should be overflowing

[drummersagainstitk]

You're doing the job well. Thank You. Keep going.

[jonasopmeer]

Really appreciated this! Thanks again Dr O!

[yourfavoritesteve]

The Lutherans and the Orthodox had a completely different phronema. I think the differences were actually much wider than perhaps we realize. The Orthodox have weathered a very long history of preserving the faith through strict adherence to the councils and tradition. Asking their patriarch to humbly consider compromising is like asking a teacher to consider changing his country’s constitution. He has no ability to step so far outside the bounds of his role.

Since then, the western phronema has found its way into Eastern Orthodoxy and some of them have begun to craft bridge-like language to modify their position to be more palatable to western ears, but the Orthodox views are more substantial than just being intellectual arguments.

[ElmarAusman]

I enjoy listening to you!!! Thanks a lot for all your work. So enlightening and edifying!

[maredondo]

God bless you. I appreciate your work here. I hear the same quotes and understand them a little different. But thank you for what you do.

[Probably_Dumb]

What's amazing to me is how the eastern orthodoxy attitude is basically the same today.

"You call yourselves theologians".
I wouldn't be shocked to hear that from the mouths EO today.

I struggle to understand how dismissive it seems.

[AnUnhappyBusiness]

I have the book and have read it. My personal opinion: the Patriarch, in his first response to the Augsburg Confession, did not openly condemn it. He did however, happen to state the creed without the filioque. He only made some cautious criticism otherwise. It could have gone well. But the Lutherans sent a response letter that goes on for pages about the filioque. You’d think they would have known the East had rejected Florence even if it was somewhat after the fact, but they seem to think the East had accepted it, and to add insult to injury they spent pages going over filioque and mentioning Florence more than once. It’s hard not to think this was rather insulting to the Patriarch. Yes, his first response was somewhat patronizing but his second response, well, you could tell he was annoyed about them forcing a response on the filioque. Then he spends most of his response on that. But it was no surprise that he wanted them to become Orthodox. I personally wish they would have avoided the filioque (since everyone could foresee how that would go anyway) and then we might seen a more charitable response on their other articles.

[chapagawa]

Thank you for covering this. I had not heard of this exchange before and the polite approach to the Orthodox Church was an eye opener and hopefully we can revitalize this attitude even today.