Who are the 144,000? Jehovah Witness vs The Bible!

Leave a comment on what you think

[jeneb]

Interesting conversation you had with them. But they are going by what they have been taught or told by the watchtower organization and they in turn learned their form of so-called "truth" from the former owners!

[guardianfury]

My mother can not give me a straight answer about whether or not Jesus is her mediator. She also believes most of the New testament is not for her yet can provide me no Biblical proof about any of this. Go figure right?....

[caribbeanman]

You did really good tying Ephesians 2:11-14 back to John 10:16. It's so obvious that Jesus was talking about the ingathering of the gentiles! Jesus even said he came to none other than the lost *sheep* of Israel. So this shows he was already applying the sheep metaphor to his Jewish listeners. So obviously when he said other sheep not of this fold, the context is clear he meant others not of the Jewish fold, and therefore obviously the gentiles. But the JWs are blind.

Here's another great angle you can use: The JWs teach that Abraham's seed is Christ, primarily, and includes the anointed. According to their theology the "other sheep", "great crowd" and/or those that are of the "earthly hope" are *not* part of Abraham's seed. Do you see the great contradiction this brings to their theology? They're saying the "great crowd" without number is not Abraham's seed! But what did God tell Abraham? "I will multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens". This expression shows clearly that the anointed - Abraham's seed - cannot be limited to just 144, 000. The OT promise pertaining to Abraham's seed more closely matches the great crowd without number, than the little flock of anointed that they talk about. So it is obvious that the great crowd spoken of in Revelation must also be anointed - part of Abraham's seed - and thus his seed is multiplied like the stars of the heavens for number, by the inclusion of the vast crowd of gentile believers.

Few JWs are even aware of this glaring contradiction in their theology - their preaching that the anointed - Abraham's seed - is a small numerable group, while the Bible shows that Abraham's seed would actually be a great crowd without number, comparable to the number of stars in the sky. I think this is an important point to bring up with them if you haven't already.

[c_rhynehardt]

The Jehovah’s Witnesses teach this earthly class would be called “The Great Crowd, ” they would spend eternity on a new righteous “Paradise Earth” with no hope of ever going to heaven. Other members, part of the little flock totaling 144, 000 called the “Little Flock, ” anointed Christians with the Holy Spirit could go to heaven.

“Consequently, those of the “great crowd” expect to remain on earth forever and to share in bringing it to a Paradise state” (Watchtower 1980 August 15 p.17)

So what are they doing in heaven? Here is their big lie”

Rev. 19:1 - “After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven.” Same as Rev. 7:9 - “look! a great crowd ... standing before the throne”

A great multitude = “the great crowd.” Again, this crowd is only seen after the 144, 000 are sealed, which is still in the future. The actual location of the great multitude is of the utmost importance because if they in heaven and not on earth, as the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach then there whole foundation crumbles to pieces. We will look at it logically and biblically; lets watch it crumble to dust by reading their statements and then the Word of God.

The location of the great crowd - “before the throne, ” “BEFORE THE LAMB” (Rev. 7:11), and We know the Lamb is in heaven Not on earth, but there are others in Heaven because that same phrase “before the throne” is also found in 7:9 and refers to a great multitude that no man can count, which is a different group from the 144, 000! And what is the location of the great crowd? “Before the throne” of God (Revelation 7:9, 15).

This is consistent in the book of Revelation, Rev. 1:4 seven spirits that are before God's throne. Rev.4:5 seven lamps of fire are burning before the throne v.6 a glassy sea like crystal is before the throne.

In chapter 7 we are introduced to the 144, 000 and the great crowd, chapter 7:9 a great crowd, ... standing before the throne and before the Lamb v.11 “And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before the throne and worshiped God”

This great crowd comes out of the tribulation from the 144, 000 and others preaching the gospel, in other words they are dead and are now in heaven around the throne. Why have they died? They are the numerous ones that come out of the great tribulation by death. Rev. 13:7 “It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.” Rev. 17:6 “I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.” Even though they are killed, laying their lives down for their faith they have eternal life. Rev 12:11: “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.”

That is why they are before the throne of God, in heaven. Rev 7:14-15 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.”

[sanderspayne]

I sometimes think that all the children that king Herod slew read Matthew 2:16 when he was trying to kill Yeshua sometimes I think that they could be the 144ooo but hey 1corinthians chapter 15:1-4 is what really matters May the Almighty bless you

[ogama]

Ugh. They are so wrong. Yet so confident in their faulty reasoning.

[c_rhynehardt]

The 144, 000 doctrine is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard of!! It is obviously a man-made doctrine.

[c_rhynehardt]

The teaching on the 144, 000 the way they believe today did not come from their founder C.T. Russell. Russell taught all the members of the Watchtower were “anointed, ' and the 144, 000 who were Spiritual Israel having the heavenly hope. The early Watchtower teaching was that all Jehovah’s Witnesses go to heaven. There was no paradise earth teaching, no two destinations for their members. Russell actually taught that the calling of the 144, 000 was completed in 1881. “We believe that the seven years ('harvest') from the autumn of 1874 to 1881, is the time for the construction of this temple, i.e. the bringing of all the members--fruit bearing branches of the Vine-- into the perfect spiritual condition...If we are correct in this matter, it proves, in harmony with the parallelism of the Jewish and Gospel ages, not only that the door of favor to the high calling to be the 'bride'-- the temple will end in the autumn of 1881.”

Russell died in 1916 and Judge Joseph Rutherford became the new president. It was under his leadership that many things began to change, especially the teaching on the 144, 000.

Everyone who became a Jehovah’s Witnesses before 1934 would go to Heaven (until Rutherford changed it). God stopped calling people to only a heavenly calling from that year. So he invented two classes, a heavenly class and earthly class. The “great crowd” class introduced by Judge Rutherford out of necessity. An earthly Great Crowd was created, a second- class of people that were subject to and dependent upon the heavenly class who alone would be part of the new covenant.

The Great Crowd limited to earth was invented to deal with the increase membership of the organization. Rutherford narrowed the promise of salvation and heaven to an elite group of 144, 000 inside their organization. The earthly class of Jehovah’s Witnesses, being the “Great Crowd” would have to survive Armageddon and hope for the resurrection.

[sanderspayne]

I guess they don't have ears to here just look at the parable in the book of Matthew about the wedding how the ones that were first chosen rejected the opportunity and chose to do other things then the master of the house said to his servants go out and bring in any and all people

[anythingbuttruth]

In other bible version it said that the 144, 000 will on the earth, not upon the earth

[adanlucio]

What happend to you're jws friends, bible study brothers they stoped coming thru lol