Is Pokemon a Good Competitive Game?

Competitive Pokemon is infamous for it's luck-based gameplay where the Better player doesn't always win. Compared to skill intensive games like Street Fighter, Melee or Counter-Strike, this can seem like a terrible Competitive experience.

All the barriers to entry when getting into the official Competitive Format, VGC, aren't great either.

However, I think there are many advantages to Pokemon as a Competitive experience, thanks to high quality fan-made Battle simulators, Resources and Rulesets.

I've played this game for over a Decade, and while sometimes its frustrating, and I look at other more Skillful looking games with envy sometimes, I'm glad this is the game I chose to obsess over.

YouTubers Mentioned:

im a blisy:

BKC:

LRXC:

Plague Von Karma:

LC Enjoyer:

Footage Used:

im a blisy Stream footage -

Competitive Pokemon IS Pay To Win (if you don't cheat...)
by im a blisy -

Various clips from syoTV -

Thankyou to im a blisy and syoTV for allowing me to use their Great footage.

The below text is very relevant to many people.

Game Freak just blew all other online game development schools out of the water with this incredible new 2022 release. You're gonna need to get a game design degree online, and FAST, if you want to make a better game than this. Not even the best strategy games android reddit could hold a candle to this breathtaking Next generation competitive Pokemon experience.

Scream Tail is the Jigglypuff of our wildest dreams. It has been buffed with some higher statistics and the incredible ability, Protosynthesis. Gen 9 Competitive Pokemon wouldn't be the same without this powerful pink blob. He kinda looks like someone I met in one of my game design and development courses.

Gen 9 Pokemon Showdown is one of the greatest online gaming sites in history. From Pikachu and Charizard, to Palafin and Roaring Moon, The new Pokemon games, Pokemon Scarlet & Violet, have introduced a lot of new faces. Can I succeed in one of the best android games of all time? If so, I'm gonna get myself a Walmart bakery Pokemon cake to celebrate.

Gholdengo is a Pokemon made of pure gold. He must have done some online business management courses to accumulate all that wealth. Or perhaps he might want to learn how to make money playing video games on YouTube. In any case, he's a powerful metagame force, with absolutely no interest in online game development schools.

#competitivepokemon #pokemonshowdown #gen9 #gen3

[jimothycool]

YouTubers Mentioned:






Thankyou to im a blisy and syoTV for allowing me to use their Great footage.

[bencarter]

Once in random battles, I got paralyzed four times in a row and in the same turns, my opponents missed all their hurricanes. Truly the game of all time.

[imablisy]

Appreciate the shout out, this was a fantastic video.

I also think something to touch on is the nature of VGC itself being more difficult than smogon as well. You really can’t take it seriously only online. The cost and time of travel make getting into it just as prohibitive as playing a fighting game, like you said.

I think the delve into what makes Pokémon unique, where both players take their turn simultaneously is really awesome.

I also think focusing on the community is really important. So often do casual fans perceive competitive as this toxic culture, when really, I’ve met some of my best friends in the world from competitive mons.

I met one of my groomsmen when I was 14 playing DP OU on shoddy.

A community is what you make of it, and it’s mostly positive in competitive mons.

[vyktorehon]

There is a joke where Pokémon will never be an e sports because if you miss focus blast you won't be getting food for a month

[Wandermidget]

I feel Pokemon games need more custom options from within the game. It's crazy that Pokemon has had native online capabilities since 2006 and we still don't have stuff like custom lobbies, custom rulesets, spectator mode. Features that many PvP games have had since the 90s.

[butteredsalmonella]

If one were to describe the RNG factor within that of Pokemon, "Unfortunate" would not even begin describe such series.

[azeria]

My issue with competitive is officially its doubles but they are like no double battles in the actual games ive learned more about double battles from rom hacks and fan games then the official games

[MasterofKnees]

There's a lot to criticize TPC for, but the one thing that I will at least give them credit for is leaving Showdown alone. You mention Melee towards the end, and it's an amazing game with a fantastic scene that I'm so happy I've gotten to be a part of, but it's also a difficult game to be so passionate about since Nintendo are always trying to find ways to put it down.

If TPC had the same relationship with their competitive fanbase as Nintendo does with the Smash community, Showdown would likely have been shut down (or at least barred from using any official assets), and playing Pokémon competitively would become a nightmare. For as much as it feels like everyone involved with making the games neglect the competitive side, at the very least they're not actively fighting against it. Of course that's a bit of a silly thing to praise any company for, but it's worth being thankful for considering what's happening with Smash, which is really not that far removed from Pokémon.

[AndrewCrimefighter]

It's worth noting that fighting games haven't always been like that. Corporate tournaments used to run with way worse rules, and games used to have a bunch of content locked behind sometimes massive grinds. It mainly changed because players complained loudly and supported grassroots events to the point that they typically eclipsed corporate ones (This was true up until evo got bought out I believe, tho even now I think the largest grassroots event (combo breaker probably) is bigger than most corporate ones) which gives the community a sort of leverage.

[LonesomeDevil]

One thing I'm extremely thankful for despite Game Freak and TPC's less than stellar track record when it comes to engaging with their community is that they never once showed any sign of wanting to shutdown Pokémon Showdown. If they don't want to provide an easy and seemless way to get into competitive battles, at least they're allowing the fans to do it themselves rather than striking them down with a DMCA like they did for a few fangames.
Maybe some people would disagree about being thankful for this when they could improve so many aspects of their brand management, but I'm an optimist by nature, I can't help but want to focus on the positives.

[MenwithHill]

There's a great video "Dear Developers, Stop Listening to Pros" which in good part makes the point that the games that get the most lively competitive scenes aren't necessarily the most balanced or well designed but the ones people already play and are invested in. Pokemon does already need a hell of a lot of clauses, bans and rules to make it work, but honestly unless it was straight up completely random it would still be popular because it's such a big franchise. As it happens it does have strategy even through all the faff, and that's plenty enough. The singles scene is massive and that's entirely because of organic community interest, it would sure be easier and more comfortable if people were provided that on-ramp in the games the way it is for fighting games these days, with tools and good introduction to mechanics instead of the extremely surface level experience of playing the games normally, but that's clearly not where Nintendo wants it.

[funkymachine]

I have severe motor disabilities and eat shit in most competitive games, and so any sort of melee or guilty gear pro dream is off the table even if i shelled out for a boxx.

Because of you linking places like mushi and then a month later advr, and the resources of how to get better and accessibility of Pokémon, I have in 5 months gone from someone who just knew the type chart to a actual decent player.

My first opening, advr, got I squeaked out top 32, and a 1755 4th place ladder peak, and am proud of myself for a accomplishment in a video game and that wouldn't have been possible if not for you and others creating valuable resources and communities, as well as the various barriers of entry and lack thereof. The best part is, I feel like it took myself clicking well even if a few ice beams froze along the way. I spent hours scouting and making notes and it paid off.

I sometimes also wonder if this is worth it, but your explanation here is such a potent one alot of Pokémon fans kinda forget when they get haxxed, and I'm glad this is a feeling long term ci players feel as well as newer ones like me.

Ramble comment over. Thank you for being fucking awesome

[gengallade]

Pokémon games absolutely need more options that make the competitive scene accessible, which has happened slowly over time (destiny knot buff, hyper training, mints, etc.), but the developers don't seem to have enough time to finish their games, let alone make them more accessible competitively. Maybe the developers working on the games do care about this, but other aspects of the games take a higher priority, and this problem never gets addressed within each game's 1-2 year, crunch-filled development cycle. It's just another way that the yearly release schedule is hurting the games, despite Game Freak's efforts to improve things over time.

[ThisAintAStupidName]

When it comes to randomness in games, it's important to make a distinction between randomness in input, and randomness in output.
Basically, are the options you have available random, or are the results of your decisions random?

For an example of the former, look at Magic the Gathering and its competitors. The cards you draw, which represent your options, are random. It is your job to figure out how to use those options to win.
For an example of the latter, Pokemons accuracy system is a good example. You always have Rock Slide available to you, but there is a 10% chance it just doesn't work when you click it.

Randomness in output can feel very bad in this regard. You can have done everything right, but the game decides you lost anyway. It feels like a loss of control, and thus uncompetitive.
Randomness in input, by contrast, usually leaves players with a more empowered feeling. "I did the best I could, with what I was given."

Food for thought, and a useful thing to look out for when evaluating games.

[luckylucas]

A friend of mine who is extremely good at chess told me that he thinks the randomness inherent to Pokemon makes the competitive experience better than chess. He said so commonly in chess, you’ll know who will win the game 20-25 turns before the game is over, and there’s absolutely nothing the opponent can do about it. Instead, not knowing exactly what move your opponent will click in a Pokemon game—or if hax comes into play, you can’t be 100% confident in a Pokemon game that the game is a foregone conclusion until the last couple of turns (with rare exceptions). The winning player still needs to think carefully while the losing player can play for higher variance or unpredictable swings to try to comeback.

Additionally, he said that two people playing with the same team will rarely play the same game twice while two chess players playing the same opening with extremely commonly play the same game twice. He said it gets monotonous to play the exact same board positions, knowing exactly what the result is, and hoping for the opponent to make a bad move in order to have a different experience. His conclusion was that while chess is a more consistent game, and the better players always wins, it’s not as fun without the unpredictability and randomness emblematic of Pokemon.

[demi-femme]

RNG is an important part of decision-making. If every move had perfect accuracy, dealt a max damage roll, couldn't crit, and had no secondary effects, the game would would become much, much simpler. The RNG is a factor you should consider at all times. Sometimes, it'll screw you out of a game, but that's only in fringe cases that we over-remember because the human brain does that.

[YungBaymax]

Competitive Pokemon does not have the best reputation in the world of E-sports.

[Squaredasher]

Truth be told I don't think that in-game randomness is the only thing creating variance between games. Sure, high-level chess play can often see top-level players playing predetermined opening lines for over 20 moves, but unlike chess, pokemon doesn't have the same opening board state because players can choose their teams, and the simultaneous turns force players to predict their opponent's next move. Yes, there are elements of luck to both of these things, but players that are better in their understanding of the metagame trends, ability to comprehend the game state, and knowledge of their opponent's habits will all give them an edge in teambuilding and prediction. And while some predictions (both in the teambuilder and during the game) might as well be RNG, and all of these actions are ultimately determined by what the player chooses. You might not choose if a rock slide misses, but if it hits into an incoming swampert when you had a good double switch the whole time? That's your fault.

Furthermore, the fear of a "solved" metagame in pokemon is inherently unfounded. If a team, strategy, or specific pokemon becomes too common, like how people have started using maushold again to remove hazards in front of gholdengo, and if something truly is so dominant that bringing counterplay to it just isn't feasible or is way worse than just bringing the thing yourself? The community will ban it. VGC might not have bans, but they rotate formats every few months so things are always kept fresh.

[Cynsham]

Competitive pokemon has existed purely in spite of every roadblock GF has put in front of it. Even now with all of the additional tools added to make things easier, you still often need multiple pokemon games which often require you to have multiple consoles to play those games on, which also often require you to play through the entire story across multiple games. Even with all of the additional help the barrier for anyone to reasonably be able to get a competitive team together on official hardware is still far too unreasonably high.

[undercovertoni]

as a HUGE fgc and pokemon head i was so not ready for the start but it was very welcome. it’s a completely different experience and i would welcome more intermixing of the two communities as (in my opinion) they are the most relating esports. both have a lot of similarities, with randomness being valued but calculatable, both relying on strong interactions for snowballing into success, and having the mental fortitude to keep your lead as strong as possible.