Arrows vs Medieval Oak Door

Can a longbow shoot through a 3" (75mm) oak door as described by 'Gerald of Wales' in 1188?

A simple question, but the answer, like all of the Lockdown Longbow series, is complicated, but here I take 3" of seasoned oak and shoot type 9 needle bodkins at it and we all get to see if Gerald was a liar or truth sayer!

If you would like to support this channel, I don't do Patreon etc, but I do have some great shops to go and check out - it all really helps

This comment was made by Erik Fossheim (thank you) and explains what Gerald saw.
"It's Geral de Barri, known as Giraldus Cambrensis, or Geral the Welsh-man. It's an account from 1188 when he wrote about his experience in Wales, named Itinerarium Kambriae.

It's during the Siege of Abergavenny Castle in 1182. "Two soldiers ran over a bridge to take refuge in one of the Castel towers. Welsh archers, shooting from behind them, drove their arrows into the oak door of the tower with such force that the arrowheads penetrated the wood of the door which was nearly a hand thick; and the arrows were present in that door as a memento."

Giraldus saw them six years after they had been so effectively shot. A hand is about 4 inches or 100 mm. The correct phrasing is "palmalis fere spissitudinis transpenetrarunt" - "they penetrated nearly the space of a palm. So maybe 3 1/2 inches or 89 mm. My palm is 103 mm across."

We have this account above, but know basically nothing else.

How thick was the door, was he talking about the planks of the door or the reinforcement crossbars, did it hit near a join or a split, if it didn't go through, how could he actually know how deep it went because he didn't know the length of the original head, was the door old wood or new wood, how far away was the shot taken, was it shot square on or at an angle and so on and so on.

[mat]

Another important thing to remember: History records the unusual. The usual is taken for granted and often they don't bother writing it done, because they can't conceive of a time when these things would not be obvious to everyone. So if it's noteworthy for Gerald to tell this story it's probably because a thick oak door almost always stops arrows usually.

[awildtomappeared]

I think because of the nature of the experimental historical tests like this, its providing new information not just explaining old information like 99% of history content is, which I think attracts a lot of people who already know a lot about history like professional historians who wouldn't watch most history channels much because they often just summarise primary sources, but here there is new info. I think this is why your comments have so much good info. :D

[MartinGreywolf]

I was intrigued by how specific this account seems to be, and went to look up transcription of original latin text, and something is definitely wrong. Either the transcription or translation is wrong, and I suspect that the culprit is translation. This isn't the first time I found very creatively translated terms (where lorica cucualta - hooded armor - was translated as leather armor for some damned reason), it seems the historians sometimes like to spice up the accounts. Anyhow, here's the text and my translation, line breaks are where commas are. I transated the entire sentence, and if you know medieval sentences, you are already braced for a ride.

in praetaxata castri proditione - In the capture of aforementioned castle
militibus duobus in turrim - soldiers placed in the tower
cumulato terrarum agere sitam - built on a mount of earth
per pontem transfugientibus - were passing over a bridge
Gualenses - the Welsh
ut ipsos a tergo percuterent - taking them in the rear
saggitas arcu mittentes - send arrows with their bows
portam turris iliceam - over to the tower gate
palmalis ferre spissitudinis - which was a palm thick
transpenetrarunt - was penetrated
ad tantorum ictuum vehementiae perpetuam memoriam - in the memory of so many strong blows
saggitis in porta ferro reprecusso reservatis - arrows were perserved in iron gate

So, to translate it properly: In the capture of said castle, soldiers were returning to their position in the tower on a mound of earth over a bridge, when the Welsh attacked them from the rear, and shot them with bows, arrows of which penetrated an iron door a palm thick, where they were then left in memory of such strong blows.

Here's a translation I found floating on the internet, without naing the translator: In the last capture of the aforesaid castle, which happened in our days, two soldiers passing over a bridge to take refuge in a tower built on a mound of earth, the Welsh, taking them in the rear, penetrated with their arrows the oaken portal of the tower, which was four fingers thick; in memory of which circumstance, the arrows were preserved in the gate.

As you can see, the translation takes some liberties there - some may be taken from previous or following sentences, but still.

The most important bits are:
- while translation states four inches, original indicates a palm, both of which amount to 10 cm, it was probably changed to be more understandable to modern UK and US readers
- original refers to an iron door, porta ferro, not oak

This means that the door in question was likely made from a strong wood and reinforced with iron bands, but the thing is we don't know if it really was oak, or what kind of oak. Oak is the most strategic choice, yes, but also pretty expensive, so we can't discount the possibility of this particular porta ferro being made with ash or something else entirely.

[gustaveremon]

Working at Guedelon castle in france as a timber framer I spend some time doing some recherche on doors. the withs waries form door to door, but having 2 1"1/2 board naild together is comun, with a side were the boards are horizontal and the other vertical. ah note also is that a hand split and hewn borad has usualy less grain runout then sawn timber.witch I think would make it harder to split with an arrow that hit it on the side of the board.
But I have to admit I would have never taught the arrows would go that deap !
great videos don't stop!
(sorry my english is not perfect )

[andrewrobinson]

In the next video, Tod goes around England shooting castle doors. "We'll get to the bottom of this!" as he legs it from security guards.

[lord_inquisitor]

Maybe Gerald just had small hands. "Gerald of Wales" sounds much better than "Small Hands Gerald"

[WikiSnapper]

I am a wood workers so I am talking from that experience, I don't have any real archery experience and while I love history and learning about it I haven't formal education on that subject.

Laminated boards cause a separation in between the grains. This is will stop any split dead in its tracks. Laminating or gluing multiple boards together is a much better way to make doors or just about everything else. By having conflicting grain patterns from the laminated boards you stopped a lot of the arrows energy from continuing. This is because it took the energy of the first split and transferred it to a large area on the board behind it. Energy over an area does less damage than energy at a point.

I wouldn't doubt you would have gotten a lot deeper if your wood was one thickness of 3 inches. It is why I no longer make canes out of a single piece of wood. I laminate 3 pieces of wood together every time now. It prevents catastrophic failures in the wood.

[DerTypDa]

So, you're testing how arrows perform when shot at oak doors and classify the arrows accordingly.

You could call it... the Oakeshott typology.

[adotare]

When you’re that close to penetrating to oak, you have to wonder what kind of effect grain pattern and density as the precise location of the arrow impact would have on penetration. If it hit somewhere where the grain was less dense (or otherwise more favourable for penetration) through the thickness of the board, it might go further than if it happened to hit a portion where the grain is dense, or if it hit a portion where there was a buried knot, etc.

[andybrown]

It's plausible for sure, a wooden door that's exposed to the elements won't be as dense and it'd almost certainly be getting hit by more than three arrows.
Sooner or later the structure of the wood would be such that arrows would start getting through as they hit existing cracks, get that extra bit of penetration and open it up more.

[tomeidt]

Wood that is seasoned outside while exposed to the elements tends to loose it's density much faster. It would be terrifying being on the other side of a three inch door watching arrow points pop out at you.

[GoodPotatoes]

Hey Todd, I want to recognize how much better you're doing. Comparing the energy you display right now to your old videos is astounding. You seem happier, more focused, and more confident in your ability to test the myths we all want to see tested. You smile so much more, you're obviously enjoying what you're doing. Just wanted to point out that we all appreciate you and seriously think you're doing a right bang up job.

[lcmiracle]

It's this sort of get-to-the-bottom attitude that I come to this channel for!

[Makrillol]

Interesting results. It would be more interesting with one piece of oak and perhaps doing a comparison between waxed arrows and non-waxed.
Always looking forward to your videos!

[gordonlawrence]

The first thing that went through my mind was "what condition was the door" in Gerald of Wales' account. It could have been an old tough gnarly door or half rotten. It might be possible to find out by going through the castle accounts to see if the door was replaced but that could take a month of Sundays and still give no result. Something makes me suspect there is more than meets the eye to this.

[Incandescentiron]

I think the two layers of wood will resist penetration more than a single plank. The arrowhead deforms in the direction the grain is running, and eventually splits those grains apart. The second board will have a different grain structure, and will resist penetration as the arrowhead is now deformed in a non-optimal direction for the second layer. What I learned from this: Laminated doors are good. I'd like to see the test again with a single 3 inch thick board!

[act..]

The big question is, "How can anyone thumb down a video that gives us real answers to centuries old questions?" This is content we will not find anywhere else.

[mrbushi]

I wish more youtubers were as Transparent and honest as you. Quality Channel

[jrk]

perhaps a old slightly rotten door, with the grain lined just in the right way could be pierced with ease

[aceshighdueceslow]

videos like this are what brought me to this channel in the first place, the Agincourt armour test was my introduction and yeah it is great fun watching reproductions of historical myths and urban legends. With that said I would love to see this tested again with different samples of door construction, I presume that we don't know exactly how this door was constructed but I imagine that even in the 11th century carpenters and woodworkers understood how wood behaves in certain environments and had their own ideas for how to make something like a door (specifically a gate, given the translations) to continue being a door for many years without needing to be replaced or repaired every year.