Two Months With the Framework 16 Laptop. My Final Thoughts!

Framework 16: The Future of Laptops or a Pricey Mistake? Dive deep into the Framework 16 with CJ as he evaluates its gaming performance, repairability, and more. Discover if this upgradeable, modular laptop justifies its price in our comprehensive review.

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00:00 - Opener
00:49 - Intro / Agenda
02:11 - How is This Laptop Different?
03:28 - Build Quality & Materials
06:05 - Display Quality
08:20 - Keyboard & Trackpad
09:49 - Camera & Microphone
10:32 - Speakers
11:47 - System Specs
12:33 - Gaming Performance
14:01 - GPU Intensive Workloads
16:36 - A Weak GPU for the Money.
17:09 - Fan Noise & Heat
19:20 - Battery Life
20:43 - Who's it For?
21:19 - Who Shouldn't Buy It?
22:37 - The High Price?
23:30 - Potential Alternative.
23:56 - Not For Me?

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Audio file(s) provided by Epidemic Sound

[ElevatedSystems]

@ 22:25 Keep in mind I'm playing devi'ls advocate here taking the perspective of a general, non-enthusiast consumer. We understand that Apple employs anti-consumer and anti-right-to-repair practices; however, from the perspective of a general consumer, the one time I had to deal with Apple for a repair was a pretty pleasant experience. I dropped my MacBook Pro and smashed the screen. I was able to go online and make an appointment for the next day at the Apple Store, where I dropped it off. The repair was completed while I sat next door enjoying a nice lunch. Because I purchased AppleCare+ for a reasonable $250, (vs the $1000 "Repairability tax" of the FW16) the repair only cost me $99. If I had done the same with my FW16, I would need to order a new display for $279 plus shipping, since FW doesn’t offer accidental damage coverage, wait for the display to arrive, and replace it myself. As the resident "IT guy" for all my friends and family, I'm certain the Apple way is the choice 100% of non-techy consumers would make.

[fghsgh]

When people say the upgradability is not worth it, i always feel like they're not thinking long-term enough. I don't want to upgrade just once in 2 years, I want to upgrade in 5. And then again in another 5. And another 5. Maybe only get a new graphics card on half of those. Other laptop brands don't support motherboard upgrades at all, and definitely not so they will fit in the same case, with the same display and keyboard, 5 years into the future. This is supposed to be the last full laptop I'll ever buy, not just a replacement for two generations.

I can't afford to buy a new laptop every 2 years. My current one is from 2018, actually. The only thing holding me back is doubts on whether Framework will be around in 20 years.

[ciswhitememe]

Please don't stop making videos about this laptop. Any information in video format is of great value and not a waste of time.

[pyroslev]

I'd venture that the pricing now for it makes it a poor choice. However, when you want to upgrade it with the marketplace in full swing (6-18 Months out) that upgradability will pay off all the more I think. Steep jump in price now but longevity is where this will win.

[peteratkin]

I got an FW 13; it is fantastic, no regrets.

[davidboesen]

I am personally having a great time with my 16, despite a little issue i caused with a RAM upgrade, but I can definitely see how i am certainly not in the majority of people here, and that's fine. I am glad that you showed this transparency with a product, and i hope you are maybe able to get what you hoped for in a few years when we might see some more cost efficient components from Framework.

[chic_luke]

Fair enough. I am still keeping my pre-order, though. As you said, it's a stand-out option for Linux users: there is nothing else quite like it w/ official Linux support right now!

[Danielau]

I can't wait for mine to arrive! I'm in batch 15 so it should be coming in the next few weeks. I really believe in their mission and want to see them succeed.

[petersdrue]

I think your criticism is fair. For me, the Framework 16 is going to be fairly cost-effective. I have no current plans on getting the GPU module. Instead, I was looking at the expanded input modules, larger screen (I'm not a fan of 13" screens because of eye strain), and the keyboard being QMK compatible. But, my intended uses are going to be for software development and cybersecurity tasks. So, it fits my needs. I think the laptop is costing me about $1500 DIY and then I purchased RAM/SSD months ago for it. Pricier than I would like, but I couldn't find a laptop about that price point that I wanted. I'm hoping they fix some of these issue long-term though. I want this to become a viable product.

For your use case, it didn't work out. A big factor seems to be that they used an AMD GPU which like you mentioned doesn't do well with professional tasks. Hopefully AMD will fix that going forward with needing to compete in AI. Maybe it's the software vendor's issue and not the GPU? I'm not sure here. But, for the general consumer, it sadly doesn't appear to be a great purchase.

[mitchib]

This makes me feel comfortable that I went with a config without the GPU module. I'm not a gamer. I just want a computer i can customise lol

EDIT: I bought the GPU now and I'm very happy with it. No issues so far!

[noahallen]

Thanks for all these FW16 vids. I hope the ecosystem around this product continues to grow. I'm sad to hear you'll be returning it.

[graemewiebe]

A word on input deck from batch 7:
I recieved my fw16 a couple weeks ago (batch 7, which started shipping after the break in february where I suspect they slowed down production a little to work on QC), and so far its been great. The keyboard flex is almost nonexistent due to the spacers they added (which came preinstalled on my unit, idea courtesy of LTT). I think I do agree with you on the touchpad to an extent - while the spacing on my module wasn't bad enough to affect functional use, I think a better locking system would be good if they dont end up selling full width touchpad modules. Something similar to those combo 6+2 ATX power supply plugs, for example, which slot together and are held in place once inserted.

Having said that, I think one of the benefits that isnt necessarily talked about is that since the 13/16 are the primary products FW makes, they can iterate on the design and improve it, rather than designing a whole new system from scratch each time - the value lies in upgradability, so they dont have to invest as much into creating a chassis each year that looks better than the last. And because its modular, you dont have to replace the whole system to make the upgrade - take the 11th gen intel frameworks' chassis, which was replaced with a more sturdy version in the 12th gen (and upgrade kits made available for what is all things considered a decent price, if a little on the expensive side).

One last thing: as someone with pets who shed, I sometimes get hair in the bottom fans which makes a whining noise. To be fair, however, I also havent taken the issue up with framework support; I'm waiting to collect some more info regarding the trackpad and acceleration, which I believe is a software issue on my part.

[ctsperformance]

I so hope they succeed. It'd give other major Laptop producers a huge signal.

[badmoose]

I was considering a framework but the price didn’t really make sense. I ended up with the Legion Slim 5 14” gen8 with ryzen 7 and rtx 4060. I was coming from a Asus g14 (rtx 2060) and a MacBook Air 13 so I am already used to the 14 inch size. I really appreciate the OLED screen, the quiet fans and the build quality.

[cgwheeler]

The breathing light mode is an official mode. It happens when you turn off num lock and press +.

[DarksurfX]

The breathing backlight mode is indeed an official feature. It’s built into the QMK firmware used on the keyboard and 10-Key. You can enable and disable it with CLI commands of the QMK tool.

[knipp]

@ElevatedSystems, thanks for your transparency, unbiased review, and information provided during your FW16 saga.

I have loved mine so far - and even I agree that its extremely expensive for what it provides.

However, like you said; as someone who supports the mission, values right to repair, and would rather upgrade than toss my old laptop to the side and create e-waste - this was a no-brainer for me. Even if its not for others - and thats ok. Thats what freedom is all about.

[locusm]

I think its a fair review given your expectations werent met with video editing, I basically code and run tons of containers on mine and its been pretty stellar. The screen is also a big improvement over previous high end Lenovo's Ive owned and is close enough to a MBP to not feel like Im losing out on anything.
Did you reach out to Black Magic or Framework for any ideas on cause of stuttering/crashes?

[neuronoc.]

The one thing I really wish Framework would engage in is the ambrosia of rugged computing. They simply need to reverse-engineer the smorgasbord or tank-built toughbooks and rugged latitudes and design a modular descendent of those old machines.

[MatthewHill]

Sorry to hear that you ended up returning it. It's not perfect, but I've been pretty happy with mine. We'll see if I still feel that way in a year or three...