Framework 16 - Performance vs Price...

The Framework 16 with AMD RX 7700S benchmarks. This is the best gaming laptop you can get for modular portable gaming, but we gotta talk about the price of upgrading modules

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[DaveD]

Would YOU actually want to upgrade your 4 year old laptop?

[ConvincedIdiot]

As a corporate IT guy, i see the value in this product.
I can buy 50 or a 100 of these with whatever gpu is available, then upgrade select users as need.
Along the way i am able to have the help desk swap parts, keep an inventory of spares, and just generally get more mileage out of the machines.

For clarity purposes, I owned an MSP for a decade, and have since worked as a CIO or Director of IT for several companies.
I do not believe the framework laptop would be a great fit for all the clients or businesses i have worked with, but for the ones that it does fit, it will end up saving a lot of time, stress, and as a result, cash.

[jpgdesign]

This feels like a first-world take. As someone who is in a developing country (Philippines), we hold to our laptops til their last breath. I still have my 7 year-old laptop, which I've upgraded and repaired throughout the years.

[Waffls]

Very fair point. It sucks that at this time their small scale/low volume is keeping prices high. I feel like one of the goals is to grow larger and bring the manufacturing costs down with increased volume. Hopefully in a couple years that $2.1k laptop will be more like $1.6k

[alisioardiona]

The framework 16 is a breath of fresh air in the laptop market. I would have bought the ram, storage and charging separately : you can get them for cheaper (about half the price) and/or higher performance than from framework though. Especially since you have to wait 6 month for the laptop.

[lachlanvanderdrift]

one thing that you forgot to mention is that because you can upgrade the entire motherboard as well, framework sells small cases for them so that you can covert the left over motherboard into small nucs if you wanted to (most likely used as a home server or browser or something).

[outtokill]

The focus in the video was upgrading the GPU. There is nothing stopping Framework from releasing a new display, and certainly there will be mainboard options. So the Framework 16 can be upgraded in small chunks as needed over the course of its lifetime. Not everyone needs the display upgrade for example but may want CPU and or GPU. The benefit here is reducing e-waste, repair-ability, and making the laptop your own.

[Aves_]

Niche products always cost more than the mass market ones. Its a sacrifice im willing to make for sustainability

[briannhinton]

I think it’s about the long term investment. When you upgrade a GPU in 3-5 years you can get the 2 year newer GPU for cheaper in the marketplace. It’s not about upgrading to the absolute newest, but being able to iteratively update at all, and not wasting the housing, screen, etc. I think we are at a point that updating most of the hardware on a frequent basis isn’t really necessary.

[DarkroeTech]

I think the biggest cost to the Framework 16" laptop is manufacturing. This level of modularity with repairability in the industry is new (relatively), so I think over time the prices may be a lot more competitive in the future, but for now, prices are going to be high until it becomes easier / cheaper to manufacture all these parts.

[timbology]

Good luck buying a genuine oem replacment battery for your legion slim 5 when it's worn out. Framework on the other hand makes it easy and may even be selling a higher capacity version by the time it needs replacing as they've done with the 13". Also choosing your ports and input device layout is a big plus.

[chm]

I would want to upgrade components if Framework did a trade in program where you send in your old modules + $$$. Then maybe they can work out deals with developing countries or education sector to make use of those older modules.

[cpMetis]

My counterpoint is that Framework's idea is EXACTLY what I want.

I don't buy something unless I expect to be happy with it for a decade. I went from the launch Moto X to a used Oneplus 7 Pro. And I have ZERO intention of upgrading anytime soon. I would still be running the exact same 4790k/980ti PC today as when I built it nearly a decade ago if my 980 didn't go fireworks mode. If I bought something, it's exactly what I want and my benchmark doesn't move. The only alternative is buying the cheapest crap available to hold me over or going without. The one thing that holds that down is software becoming less optimized for certain old hardware, which is basically fully solved by Framework's replacement/upgrade system.

It's not analogous to going from an iPhone 5 to an iPhone 10 to be at the top of "current", it's comparable to swapping a bigger SD card into your Switch so you can keep downloading new games without worry after getting as much use as you can out of the original storage.

Framework is the costly nice boots you buy from the cobbler and have resoled every half decade. It DOESN'T make economic sense compared to rebuying the same good feeling top outlet pair on the same interval, but I'll still happily do it because it gives the best experience.

Consistency has inherent value.

[hanktank]

I think this is a really fair point. I think the amount of premium you pay on price is a bit higher than what makes sense for most people. It's super cool and the modularity is a huge selling point, but just replacing a laptop in a few years for the same price makes a lot of sense too. Hopefully if they get bigger prices could possibly be more competitive

[zeeinfinite]

It's definitely at a high price point at the moment. But remember, the main idea of repairability is to not waste; to NOT DO what you have pointed out in the video, just buy a new laptop to replace the old one. That is exactly the problem we have with smart phones.

Being able to upgrade, and the whole modularity of Framework is an incredible bonus to the fact that it is repairable. It definitely caters to a specific mindset though so yeah not for everybody.

[KarlRock]

Dammit, you got a point. Looking forward to your review of the Framework laptop.

[mattotto]

I just want to mention, not the upgrading aspect but on the reparability aspect. Laptop parts tend to cost a ton of money. If you got an older machine, that's still kicking because you pulled out the extras to get it, and something breaks, it usually costs a lot of money to get the part.

Parts and availability is the main factor hurting older lappies. They overheat, you clean the fans, you snap a blade and suddenly its $$$ for replacement cooling fans. Meanwhile framework seems to have parts, first party, available and relatively well priced.

I would love to replace the screen on my i7 4th gen lappy, or put it in an external case, if that was an as convenient option as it is with the framework for example.

[jjcranfill]

I think the more people that buy these machines, the more the upgradability becomes price competitive. That old GPU module could be resold if there's demand for it. Also the replaceable keyboard and screen make the wear on the machine less of a concern for me personally.

[Matt-fydk]

I have a complete pimped out one pre-ordered. I strongly advocate their idea of reducing e-waste and being in full control of repairing. If you don't care about that or cannot afford it, then there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

[jsteph]

The best part about framework that also wasn’t mentioned is when you do the DIY kit you can select “none” for some of the parts!
For me I saved $83 on the same spec ram, $170 on the SSD and like another $150 bringing my own windows OS all because I shopped around for compatible parts for the laptop. This company literally wants you to save money and have a say in what you want in your own laptop. I got 1 of each expansion card along with the numpad and blacked it out and mine my laptop ended up being around the 1600 mark