The Tactic that Killed P-51 Mustang Pilots

This is the story of one of World War II's most forgotten tactics, that may have gotten many 8th Air Force P-51 and P-47 pilots killed. Here, we cover the strafing and crediting of grounded aircraft in the European theater.
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[mickmacgonigle]

The mustang was a great plane. To say it won the war is ridiculous

[JK-rvtp]

Little known but infuriating scandal related to the AAF "Bomber Mafia" in 1943. P-47s were perfectly capable of escorting bombers as far as Berlin, had the Army Air Corps ordered large capacity drop tanks that had been designed and were available to be mass produced. Air Corps leadership chose not to, thinking it was unnecessary. Even when it proved to be disastrous, their first response was the B-17 gunships, a ridiculous concept. Meanwhile, P-47s in the Far East were doing very long range escort missions in New Guinea, equivalent to Berlin and back, using a large capacity drop tank developed by the Australians. The post WW2 narrative that fully escorted missions deep into Germany were not possible until the Mustang was false, to cover the bad decisions. Also, the P-47 was the better fighter overall, but the Mustang's fuel burn advantage and much lower unit cost (about 2/3rds) made it a no brainer logistically and is the real reason it dominated later in the war.

[ChetJang]

"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war, there is nothing sweet nor fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Ernest Hemingway

[johnheart]

I wonder if they could have restricted the strafing to the P-47? It had the air cooled engine, a tougher frame and 2 more 50 caliber machine guns.

[surferdude]

Never send a Mustang to do a Mosquito's job.

[tatters]

The idea that the Mustang was the most important aircraft in WWII is ridiculous as it only became a real factor in the last year of the war in Europe. By that time Germany's goose was already cooked.

Early P-51s with the Allison engine were garbage. The British used them and they suffered the highest loss rate of any aircraft used by the RAF. The Merlin engine variant only entered service in Dec 1943 and was only available in appreciable numbers by the spring of 1944. By that time the Spitfire had been fighting for five years before the P-51 had barely gotten started.

In football terms it's like the backup quarterback coming on to play in the 4th quarter with his team way ahead, then afterwards claims credit for the win.

[dpmoos]

Unfortunately in Korea the same error was repeated; P51 (F51) got used as ground attackers. Probably because most P47 already have been scrapped at this time.

[christinebridges]

I lived in the FRG from the early 1970s. My landlord, Herr Lehr, was a veteran of WW2 and had been invalided early. We spoke of the war as often as I was able to prevail upon him to do so. He told me among many other things that from a certain point in the conflict one just didn't go out in daylight, PERIOD. He described the fighters attacking farms, farmers, tractors, livestock, anything that moved or sustained the war effort. I've often tried to imagine any given strike which after the bombs were toggled, 600 fighters were then freed up to ravage the countryside, all the way back to the coast. Not to mention aircraft already at it as part of the tactical air force. Since relating some of his experiences has in the past caused some people heartburn, let me just relate, mine are solely retold observations, with no hidden messages whatsoever. Duane Beeson had been a Eagle Squadron pilot, getting out of his Spitfire and into the Jug with kills already under his belt. Seems to me his airplane was named 'The Boise Bee'. I have seen a P-51B under restoration in Nampa, Idaho and it was marked as Beesons Mustang. I think Beeson lived through the war and was dead a year later from a brain tumor.

[markr.]

In the video I kept seeing P-51As or A-36s!! They had the scoops above the cowling due to the Allison engines. Those were never used for escort duties as far as I know, so that's a bit unrealistic. If anyone can find any evidence of Allison powered Mustangs escorting bombers late in the war, I'd be surprised. At least in Europe. Some P-51As were used as escorts in Burma, China and India. The A-36 was never, ever used for escort because it was a dive bomber/ground attack version with dive brakes.

[LoosMoose]

For me it was just nice seeing the P-51 without invasion stripes. They were only on the airplanes for a couple of weeks and in the case of the P-47s they were off at least on the top surfaces within about 10 days. Still... almost every example you see today has the stripes. Go look at historical pictures and see that they are not common.

[LancelotChan]

Totally unfair to take away their credits. It's not like they were shooting things without difficulties. In fact the difficulties were even more since they were facing flak, 40mm, instead of the guns used in the aircrafts.

[brunozeigerts]

The sad arithmetic to this was that the USAAF could afford to lose more fighters and pilots than the Luftwaffe. A good book to read on the subject is Strategy for Defeat by Williamson Murray., which details many of the disastrous decisions that lead to the Luftwaffe's defeat. Like failure to achieve maximum production, lack of a strategic bomber, etc. A particularly bad decision was removing flight instructors and assigning them to fighter squadrons.

[dustinchase]

Defeating planes in the air would be a much better tactic as it would pilot and plane against pilot and plane. The risks to rewards would be much lower as the allied pilots would not be lost to empty aircraft. Also, replacing the p-47's with P-51' as a ground attack aircraft was another mistake that caused the loss of many pilots. You can't successfully replace a tank with an armed racing car.

[yourhandlehere]

I know one of the last P-51 pilots from the Korean war. My buddy's dad. He's still getting around a bit.
After training he took an "unauthorized flight" in his plane before they shipped out. They wouldn't give him leave.
Flew to his girlfriend's house. I don't remember if it was a road or field he landed on. Got a preacher, got married and came back. Spent a few months in the hoosegow.
Said it worth every minute. He kept flying his own planes for many years, went twin engine and used it for an air ambulance for Shriner's Hospitals ferrying kid's across the country.

[TheGabby]

Hopefully you tell Gabreski’s story as well as Zemke’s story. For that matter, the story of the P-47 only 56th FG

[gretchenise]

Command orders given at the time were followed to the letter, and as additional incentives their orders included confirmed destruction of land based aircraft would be counted the same as aerial kills made. Those pilots who engaged the heavily fortified aerodrones and scored kills should DEFINITELY BE CREDITED AS THE STANDING ORDERS STATED THEY WOULD BE !!! The fact they reversed the the decision after the war is nothing short of cry baby pussy maneuver. Because it was unfair to other pilots??? It was WAR, and life is not fair, get over it!!! Did not every fighter pilot risk the same thing time after time when they got in the cockpit. Did the navy pilots get more privileges or bonus points for serving on a aircraft carrier? As far as I know they did not. If our pilots lived through the war and got recognition for Their contributions to the war effort by being an ACE pilot WTF would you strip them of that honor to take that away from them?

[Jez]

The P-51 is a terrible ground attack aircraft. Water cooled with the radiator at the bottom. It’s far too susceptible to ground fire. This is a high altitude fighter, this is where it shines. Unfortunately the USAF in the Korean conflict didn’t learn the lessons from its performance in WW2 and used this aircraft again in the ground attack role to unfavourable results.

[thomasgarrison]

All respect for General James Harold "Jimmy" Doolittle, but he made a big mistake here. Ground aircraft kills should have NOT been counted, as qualification for ACE status! ! !
But I am just Monday morning quarterbacking here, Doolittle was a famous, B-25 Mitchell bomber pilot, not a P-51 Mustang fighter pilot.

[RANDALLBRIGGS]

You've got P-51s flying in 3-plane formations, like the RAF used during the Battle of Britain. But by 1941, Allied fighters typically flew in 4-ship "finger four" formations.

[Neal-ji]

Pilots got a shit deal, but if not for their courage and resolution, the war may have lasted a longer. Also wondering why bombers were not used more often as a separate command just for such missions.