Anhedonia Talkback, Part One

Anhedonia is a standard symptom of depression. In previous posts I have reviewed the nature of anhedonia and a series of strategies designed to cope with and overcome it. Those posts have been extremely popular and have attracted a number of comments. In this video I respond to some of these comments with further discussion of anhedonia and its treatment.

I also provide continuing education online courses for professionals, as well as live and on-demand courses for the general public and organizations.

#anhedonia

[Thomas-pqys]

I'm there...

I've dealt with depression all my life. I have watched it come, murder my self-esteem, drive, motivation.... I learned that my depression is an injury that will heal. It takes time... and this has proven, time after time.

Recently, my sister passed. It isn't her death that has me down. It was that through her executors, I discovered within minutes, that I was the family scapegoat, black sheep, whipping boy, control freak narcissistic supply..

I went into a rage like I've never felt.

An old friend noticed long ago that I take my anger, and turn it into depression. My narcissistic mother would beat me bloody for getting angry... and this is how I learned this process.

The rage didn't go away, slowly turned into such a deep depression, that I got anhedonia... which has sucked all drive, motivation, joy, from my wonderful life. It's like my family is punisuing me still from the grave... I'm still the whipping boy.

It's been 5 months. Slowly, the anger is lifting. The depression, anheddonia, not so much.


I live for music. I'm a life-long performing professional... it, and being on stage, is my ultimate experience in life. Now, I can't even practice, or play for pleasure.

Like one of the folks above, I'm most comfortable, laying in bed with my kitty. What gets me out of bed is taking care of a feral family that lives on my deck.

I cry over the darndest things. A moving thought about a certain song, and it's performance, by an original artist, animals, my beloved cats, departed, and soon-to-be-departed long time friends.

I've been diagnosed with an ischemic stroke that affects my balance... and I'm grateful that that is all it is... I've found supplements, through professional friends that really work well to keeps vertigo away at best, controlable at worse.

I've read much about stroke, and that it can affect moods, emotions... and I wonder if that is the case since my sister, who passed 3 months after the stroke... regardless, I've persued psychological results of being raised by a narcissist, and how my sister was recruited in on the plot to control me with shame... and later, my father was recruited as well. I had no family allies. I feel no grief, and know why. I was blatantly abused.

But I'm here now. I used to love to have a drink, play guitar at home, get crazy creative. I discovered that multiple drinks produce no bigger, better high, or artistic results... so I just have one.

I'm seeking help... but meanwhile, I've so many responsibilities. Not only for myself, but for dear old friends who are getting dementia... who helped me in my past when I needed it most... it is time for me to pay them back... I hope to find joy in this effort...

[historianz]

22 years Anhedonia, 23 years Paxil. First taken to treat depression developed from complicated grief. Now reduced dose of Paxil being 10mg/daily. No improvement from Anhedonia yet. I would do anything for even 1 hour of non total-numbness

[ShaunLuttin]

You addressed the importance of doing something, and talked about how doing certain things has a better outcome than doing other things does. In that part, you briefly mentioned meeting "the requirements of the situation." I needed to hear that, because recently I have focused on doing something that "contributes to my values." As a result, I have forgotten to address the requirements of the situation. I have been spending most of my time contributing to _others_ and very little taking care of myself. For instance, it contributes to my values to volunteer at the local community center, but the situation requires that I earn a living to pay for groceries, the mortgage, and retirement savings. If I spend all my time volunteering, and none earning a living, then eventually I won't have enough money for rent or groceries and will never have enough to retire! I notice so many messages about doing something meaningful, something that matters, and I tend to forget that fundamentally I value self-preservation! It seems so obvious on reflection, that when we choose to do something, we ought to prioritize the must-have requirements first - like eating and earning a living! Only then take care of the nice-to-haves like contributing to something larger than ourselves. Doing _anything_ beats sitting on the couch; then, doing self-preservation beats most other things; after that, consider contributing to others in a way that aligns with our values. Does this seem reasonable?

[angelafitzwater]

I have several crush fractures causing kyphosis and pain on walking with a walker. I am grieving the death of my husband 2 years ago. Having sold our house and moved to a different state, to live with my son and his family, I became depressed. Anhedonia set in and my immobility is making it difficult to go places and do things which might help. I am not currently driving a car.

[DAClub-ufbr]

I can experience pleasure in the moment, it does not last long. I can neither look forward to things nor look back on past experiences fondly.

[SoSkepticalFox]

16:35 this sounds like my feelings, I used to love to draw and now i hate it. I never want to draw ever again but i do want a hobby.
However with anhedonia i cant figure out if i enjoy it to know if i keep doing it will it bring me joy.

My thought process during drawing and why i hate it now is "this is difficult, i dont like how it looks, no one cares if i draw this or not either so why am i putting myself through it"

It just puts me into further depression when i try to draw because its just frustrating

[umagrey]

I have suffered from anhedonia for as long as I can remember and nothing has ever changed that. I was diagnosed with ADHD as an old woman in my early 60s.

[Dietconsulting]

I had severe anhedonia for close to 3 months as I was recovering from a major depression. Your original video was REALLY helpful.

Things I did to keep connected
1) didnt withdraw from my bowls team, kept going even though I felt "meh". I went to see if i could suck a bit less than the previous week and because two of the team were going through horrible family issues and our time playing was respite for them.
2) im a very competent crocheter and i just chose a very simple pattern and made it in time for a baby arriving in my circle. My motivation was the mother's delight.
3) i mechanised a lot of simple tasks in my business. Initially I wasn't even certain i wanted to try and be a practitioner with anhedonia. I then decided that i needed structutes to be as good as i could be if this persisted. I realised i could still do one part of practice with anhedonia - the detective work on "whats not working" at a physiology/nutrition level. If the anhefonia had persisted I would have struggled to get the niche working but im sure I could have found a place.
Im glad i recovered and i also learned a lot.

[ShaunLuttin]

I listened to this while doing Pilates on a reformer at home. It felt pointless and lame, but I reminded myself that doing it helps and that, over time, things can get better.

[pault]

I've had anhedonia for about 10 years (started in my early 20s). Some years, it gradually started to lift sort of just on it's own and I got my emotions back in a more subtle way. However, 2021 in the thick of Covid, I had a very bad mental breakdown which brought the anhedonia back stronger than before. I could not feel anything at all.

This is what I have found through research. Anhedonia is a condition of the brain. Your neurotransmitters are no longer working properly due to multiple reasons, two common big ones: very stressful situations or trauma. through my own research, I have found that one way to actually effectively treat this is brain exercises. As it is with anhedonia, we often can not feel positive emotions. What I do are brain exercises, 10-15 minutes a day of things that I "enjoyed". I use quotations because obviously with anhedonia you can't enjoy or it's very blunted. You have to train the brain to start feeling again. I'm not fully healed but I have gone from 0 flat feeling anything to being able to enjoy music, food, shows, connections with people etc. It's not linear though, some days you'll feel and some days you won't. It takes time ive been doing this over a year now but trust me it does work but you have to do it every single day and be consistent.

[iamthefiremanjj]

For this condition to I would check any food sensitivities and work with those and get your vitamin d levels check as well as hormones . It helped me out a lot . It sounds crazy but keto fasting helped me sometimes as well

[PeaceboneGotFound]

Wow, you answered my question (at 8:45)! I did make the decision based on what I thought future-me would be proud of and based on my values, and it turned out well!

[boltneck]

Bingo! I wish I could get a hold of someone to talk to about this. We all have different reasons that lead to this mindset, but this is the first time an actual name has been put to something I could never put into words. Trying to explain these feelings to someone often leads further misunderstanding and coming off as we somehow act this way on purpose.

[earthworldadventurer]

Your comment at around 27 about for some people this is a cue to shift away from TO YOU! YES! That makes sense! That feels like something instead of nothing!

[johnpatterson]

Hi Randy Namesake, I find your content and honest style helpful. The word ‘anhedonia’ has been on the periphery of my awareness for a while. This is the first time I have explored it more deeply. In itself it is helpful to have the term. I see the term ‘depression’ - often conflated with ‘sadness’ - and immediately I know that person doesn’t get it. Not my situation.

Although I have taught creative visualisation to others successfully, I could never generate excited anticipation myself. Your comments on feeling v action, Randy, are very enlightening in that regard.

[brianpulley]

Ive struggled for the past 5 or so years with this...i force myself to get the kids to school and go to work but when i get home i hit my bed and thats it im done...on the weekends i pretty much stay in bed all weekend and I used to be very active in the gym and done a lot of stock car racing and now it's been 4 years since I raced and even then i had to force myself to go and got no enjoyment out of it and I'm just letting my home and yard go and its so frustrating wanting to get better and just can't seem to make anything work and my kids deserve the old and much better version on me.... I've tried meds and everything OTC for energy and all kinds of supplements with little to no effects and i feel like im just waiting to die...😥.

[jameshenman]

I loved your talk! I just reconnected with LinkedIn after a long break and have been checking out my old groups and came across your video. I’ve been a Therapeutic Life Coach in private practice as a Psychologist for 40 years. I recently republished a book I wrote 20 years ago “Who’s Really Driving Your Bus Today “ available on Amazon.  
Your style of presenting makes Psych-Educational very therapeutic, normalizing that feelings of depression and anxiety can be normal in the challenging stresses of life. Giving some important tools like Second-Order Feelings and others make an impact on the listener’s perception.
I look forward to seeing more. Yes, I did subscribe😉

[knowledgeos]

great ... I love your teaching and u r best

[matthewdavis]

I struggle with Avoidant PD. Lately I’ve been using a trick where I think of people the way I think of my cat: “just” animals with developed traits, it makes them less threatening by making them more like an observational ‘thing’ whose judgements are just a relative perspective. Do you have any other tips to help take some of the enormous anxiety out of interpersonal interaction? Mantras, if you will, little ideas to keep in mind when I engage

[ddewittfulton]

RE: "Positives". - It is difficult for me to say for sure, but it seems like I am more productive as an artist/writer, in my work-work, stuff around the house, generally getting things done whilst in this persistent anhedonic state. It's like a restlessness of sorts? I do not know if this is an "in spite of..." or a "because of..." anhedonia. I know that being deep in a kind of anhedonic "pit" I feel much, much worse when I am not productive. Although not a "pleasure" per se, I do feel better having some production in memory to recall at the end of the a day. "Satisfaction" from accomplishment is not pleasure in itself but it has a long half-life and it is genuinely something that makes life better for me. It's in REFLECTION rather than ANTICIPATION is probably how I'd qualify it.

Can this be experienced without anhedonia? Unclear since we don't run double-blinds on ourselves, except to say that I have been on antidepressants and off antidepressants. It SEEMS that "off" antidepressants I am more anhedonic but also more productive. But I cannot say for sure whether this is real cause-and-effect or maybe just me responding to anhedonia and that the "will power" that I apply to myself to keep myself busy and productive could be applied just as well to my less-depressive state experienced whilst on the meds. As in, maybe I am happier but less motivated on some level.

I tend to resist this conclusion because I despise that old saw that creative people want to be angsty because otherwise they lose their creativity. I am old enough to know, and have experienced sufficient, varied brainstates to know, that that is BS. I am not altogether sure that the increase in productivity, even IF it results from a lack of a medicated state of lowered-depressive symptoms is ultimately worth it. My current plan is to see how things develop vis a vis my depression over the next month and then determine whether I want to revisit pharmacology or not.