Borderline: Narcissist’s Mirror (and Avoidant Personality Disorder)

Narcissist is bothered by your presence – borderline by your absence

Both try to dissolve you and eliminate your separateness, agency, personal autonomy, and independence

Either by rendering you inanimate and penalizing you for any deviation and divergence

Or by merging and fusing with you while outsourcing to you critical psychological needs and functions.

Both need to devalue and discard you:

The narcissist in order to reenact separation-individuation from a mother figure

The borderline in order to ameliorate engulfment anxiety.

Both of them become avoidant and schizoid at some stage.

The narcissist either because of deficient or negative supply (narcissistic injury or mortification) or to process a corrupted introject

The borderline in order to lick her wounds and develop abandonment anxiety sufficient to trigger another round of approach-avoidance repetition compulsion.

Should not be confused with Avoidant Personality Disorder which is an anxiety reaction to perceived or anticipated rejection – rather than a psychopathic reaction (like the Borderline’s).

AvPD is connected to people pleasing, indecisiveness, schizoid states, and to risk and conflict aversion, hesitancy, and extreme self-doubt.

People suffering from Avoidant Personality Disorder feel inadequate, unworthy, inferior, and lacking in self-confidence. As a result, they are shy and socially inhibited. Aware of their real (and, often, imagined) shortcomings, they are constantly on the lookout, are hypervigilant and hypersensitive.

Even the slightest, most constructive and well-meant or helpful criticism and disagreement are perceived as complete rejection, ridicule, and shaming. Consequently, they go to great lengths to avoid situations that require interpersonal contact - such as attending school, making new friends, accepting a promotion, or teamwork activities. Hence Avoidant Personality Disorder.

Inevitably, Avoidants find it difficult to establish intimate relationships. They "test' the potential friend, mate, or spouse to see whether they accept them uncritically and unconditionally.

They demand continue verbal reassurances that they really wanted, desired, loved, or cared about.

When asked to describe Avoidants, people often use terms such as shy, timid, lonely, isolated, "invisible", quiet, reticent, unfriendly, tense, risk-averse, resistant to change (reluctant), restricted, "hysterical", and inhibited.

Avoidance is a self-perpetuating vicious cycle: the Avoidant's stilted mannerisms, fears for her personal safety and security, and stifled conduct elicit the very ridicule and derision that he or she so fears!

Even when confronted with incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, Avoidants doubt that they are socially competent or personally appealing. Rather than let go of their much cherished self-image, they sometimes develop persecutory delusions. For instance, they may regard honest praise as flattery and a form of attempted manipulation.

Avoidants ceaselessly fantasize about ideal relationships and how they would outshine everyone else in social interactions but are unable to do anything to realize their Walter Mitty fantasies.

In public settings, Avoidants tend to keep to themselves and are very reticent. When pressed, they self-deprecate, act overly modest, and minimize the value of their skills and contributions. By doing so, they are trying to preempt what they believe to be inevitable forthcoming criticism by colleagues, spouses, family members, and friends.

From the entry I wrote for the Open Site Encyclopedia:

The disorder affects 0.5-1% of the general population (or up to 10% of outpatients seen in mental clinics). It is often comorbid with certain Mood and Anxiety Disorders, with the Dependent and Borderline Personality Disorders, and with the Cluster A personality disorder (Paranoid, Schizoid, and Schizotypal).

[elstal]

Mother: borderline. Father: narcissist. Oldest sister: Dad’s Golden Child. Now narcissistic. Next sister: Mom’s scapegoat. Now borderline. Me: not amazing enough or troubled enough to merit much attention. Now Codependent. Younger brother: Alcoholic with anger/control issues. I live thousands of miles away and have as little to do with them as possible. I still wake up from bad dreams where my two older sisters torment me like a cat’s toy.

[alisasalem]

10 minutes in and you have explained my entire childhood experience. My father was a narcissist and my mother a Borderline. My father passed 8 years ago. I went no contact with my mother 3 years ago. I appreciate your videos because you validate every year of therapy, every psychology course, and every CPTSD workshop I have engaged in as I attempt to heal my heart. Your wisdom is a gift, Sam. Thank you❤️

[michellew]

Can you please please please do more on avoidant personality disorder, Thankyou.

[galejohnson]

The person I lived most of 32 years insisted I be just like her. She was threatened if I had a separate opinion. She insisted I accompany her at all times. If she was working outside, she wanted me to just stand beside her. She was threatened if I went somewhere without her, or met with friends without her included. Yet, she treated me with distain and massive efforts to control me. She functioned fairly well away from home. I tried to be compassionate, but it wore me out. I left.

[Gracie.Gardener]

I have been working hard to understand the delusional behavior that my father had towards my mother and the expectation for everyone around to share in the fantasy. My dad was diagnosed as having bipolar but I can now see that he had strong borderline characteristics as well. It’s a bit fascinating that dad was the borderline and mom is the narcissist, because it’s most often presented as being reversed.
Prof Sam has been my Rosetta Stone. I am so grateful for the clarity.

[sightunseen]

A distorted masculine plus distorted feminine. A toxic perfect match. I know this couple. Thank you for this detailed explanation.

[mygirldarby]

How is the borderline different than a vulnerable narcissist?

[Rosecomments]

“Echo can only repeat what narcissist says”

[prognostications]

The narcissist wants their partner to remain constant with the internalized introject, in order to maintain introject constancy. Whereas the borderline simply wants their partner to 'be there', in order to maintain object constancy. You can see why these two would theoretically make an ideal pair. The borderline will mold herself to fit within the narcissists idealized internal image, so long as the narcissist remains a constant object. The narcissist will remain a constant object, so long as the borderline maintains his idealized internal image of her. Which she will happily do, as to be disagreeable is not worth the chance of losing that which regulates her internally. It is the perfect dance. Although, the premise is that neither ever change. Hence, during this shadow dance, the two begin an infinite regression, because to not move forward, is to move backward, as time does not stand still to accommodate them. Although, if they were to understand the psychology behind the bliss they feel, it could form a quite powerful dynamic with healing properties. It may allow them to move forward, stronger together.

Or, perhaps i'm incorrect.

[tulinbeyduz]

i think i’m a mix of anxious and avoidant . I went 6 years with no intimate partner .. I then dated a man that only wanted to see me once a week if even that and on his terms . It triggered me feeling not good enough . I broke it off . I can’t stop thinking of him. He tried 6 weeks getting me back, but i was deactivated as he had tried to make me jealous by saying another woman was interested in him at work . I think he thought this would make me run back to him, it made me run and run . Now i’ve had time to process my feelings .. i miss him .. I am mlt going back though .. I don’t know if i’m borderline, but personal relationships hane been hard for me . I want to get closer they don’t . Then there are the ones that want to suffocate and control me . i can’t seem to find a happy medium

[VicBerger]

Amazing. My god you are a genius. Thank you thank you thank you for all of your work.

[nicolesiemens]

I feel like the Covert Narcissist I had been seeing struggled with both.
He would discard me out of nowhere- and then take me back, but then I remember one day he said, "are you going to leave me?" almost like he was panicking.
He discarded me 3 times over 7 months- but it was such an emotional rollercoaster, I couldnt tell if he was borderline or narcissistic. He also seemed to have a Dismissive Avoidant Attachment Style- so whenever I would try to reassure him- he would push me away even more. It was SO confusing,

[barrylyndongurley]

Thanks so much Professor Vaknin for providing clarity to those of us who still need help in understanding why narcissists do what they do. I am apparently a magnet for such people, having grown up in a family of both overt and covert narcissists. I don't know if I'll ever be free of this, but having a better understanding really helps.

[victorosoriojule]

5 minutes in and I hate how much this is on point lol

[clearriver]

😮 This is crazy. I’m pretty sure Ive been in an on and off Borderline (Anxious Preoccupied)/Narcissist (Dismissive Avoidant) relationshit with someone the past year. Im hearing so much of reality and clarity in what he’s saying.

[jed]

I hope you can make another video focus exclusively on Avoidant and how it’s interpersonal dynamic (whether to attract or repel) among the Cluster B group.

[MeowMeow-ywxt]

I really like these therapy session simulations that I found in couple of Professor's videos.They are very descriptive.

[Helen_Artemyeva]

I'm Borderline. And I'm feel exactly the same. Great description)) thanks a lot.

[roxy]

Absolutely astounding insights in this video thank you especially where you have a narcissistic father and then a borderline son the differences here are so useful as sometimes the two disorders can be confused

[robanjel]

Thanks Sam. You broke this topic down very well. Made me look back and understand the bizarre behaviors I had to deal with. It’s complicated when you understand more because I wonder and seems she was in between the borderline and narc spectrum. These things kinda intertwine. Because there were times they threaten to discard you yet, they can change there mind quickly. Hence abandonment anxiety. But on the narc side seems they can also devalue and rid you easily. Possibly because there has been too much narc injury…