Did Jesus Exist?

Did Jesus Exist? | Dr. James F. McGrath

On this episode of MythVision, we dive into the fascinating topic of the historical Jesus with none other than Dr. James F. McGrath. Despite the fact that the figure of Jesus is shrouded in layers of legend and myth, scholars have uncovered compelling evidence to suggest that there was a real person at the core of these stories. Dr. McGrath's expertise on the subject makes him the perfect guide as we explore the historical context in which Jesus lived, the reliability of the sources that tell his story, and the enduring significance of his teachings. So tune in and join us on a journey of discovery into one of the most enduring and enigmatic figures in human history.

Did Jesus Even Exist? | Examining Jesus Mythicism With James F. McGrath PhD


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#Jesus #mythvision #MythVisionPodcast #mvp #dereklambert

[maatjusticia]

I like Dr Joshua Bowen when he says "that's not my area of expertise" (though I'm sure he knows a lot), because it shows how a true scholar should behave. The question of the use of the verbs "genomai" and "gennau" by Paul is always given the same answer by historicists, without considering a basic principle of Textual Criticism: how a specific author uses a specific word (or expression, or syntax, etc.) in his/her work. On Digital Hammurabi channel there's a great introduction to Textual Criticism, for those who like to learn by themselves.

[jonathansobieski]

Paul says Jesus was “staked” in the original Greek. That doesn’t necessarily mean nailed to a cross or what we think of by “crucified” in modern English.

[therongjr]

I'm pretty sure "Jesus" was the friends we made along the way.

[liveonce]

This guy seems very knowledgeable and i liked listening to him. Hope hes able to make it on again.
As an exchristian, its easy to see some athiests as God haters etc and wanting to just make a mockery of christianity to deconvert people. Christians will see those people as working for satan. But i think even most christians can see that this guy, not only knows his stuff but also has good vibes. You can tell he is genuinely nice and speaks from his true perspective. 😎

[johnnymomascaro]

Not sure if you ever interviewed these authors but their book "The Jesus Mysteries" is what got me out of the system! Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy,

[mf_hume]

James seems like such a genuine guy. Love to see more of him on MV!

[themythiclife]

Many thanks for encouraging productive discussion, on both sides, Derek!

[integrationalpolytheism]

1:09:07 - the burden of proof is where, though?

Is it on those making the assertive claim that this guy did exist in history?

Because so far I've only heard arguments that assume the burden of proof is with those NOT making the claim.

[daveallen]

Always a pleasure to listen to listen to James McGrath, his Baptist stuff you could listen to all day.

[markpestell]

The 27 books of the Gospels, Epistles, Revelation and Acts, known to Christians as the New Testament Bible were compiled from loose scrolls, and finished at different dates from 75 AD to 150 AD. Jesus and the stories were at first told publically for decades before they were recorded on parchment. The story was constantly improved, distorted and changed, for around 300 years. The stories of the accepted Gospels all tend to duplicate each other yet, are contradictory as if they were a type of dictation taken down. Evidence for his birth does not exist as the year 0 does not exist, the date of his death and the time of his death are recorded differently in the Gospels. Almost no evidence of biographical information within the Gospels is found at all about the existence of 'Jesus" the man who was said to walk the earth 2000 years ago. No evidence about what he looked like, the sound of his voice. His lineage is totally made up, one Gospel writes he came from Adam? another that he came out of Abraham's family? The New Testament Bible is a faith document, not an academic document. For Jesus' existence to be proven it must be based on sources at the time, letters, artifacts etc. The New Testament as a concept was based on the Church's word fixing the story into stone after the Synod of 397, as Canon law, it was illegal to question the Bible or the Church from this date, thus the law stated Jesus 'must have lived'. There were ancient writers around in the first 3 decades of the first century yet nothing has ever come to light as witnesses, outside of the Gospels to suggest evidence that 'If someone did walk around the streets after being crucified, it would have been recorded somewhere'.All of the Jesus miracles would have been big news but nothing real apart from the Gospels is recorded, and glorified by the Church afterwards. A lot of the New Testament is actually for want of a basic word, a 'copy' from Ancient Egyptian legends and or Zoroastrian books - such as a god who could change water into wine, rose from the dead, was a good samaritan, a virgin birth, the god-son died for the believer's souls etc ( dated as paganism pre Christian) Tim Freke and Peter Gandy have found 180 similarities between the Jesus written about in the Bible and those of earlier religions - the New Testament Gospels, Jesus is copycat based on old myths ) These two historian academics found real hard evidence about the similarity, The development of the Church - its rise to power, influence and its success has more to do with Paul, Peter and later Emperor Constantine plus the hard work of those former slaves who once given freedom ( living often in terrible poverty around the Empire, ) was achieved wanted to believe so strongly in an afterlife as a reward for suffering throughout their lives - flocked to Christianity. These ex-slaves gradually moved into local government, trade, farming land they owned and crafts that by 290AD were great enough in number not to be ignored by Constantine who then had to accept the importance of the Christian faith to find enough soldiers for his civil war. Later as emperor, Constantine first made the 'Nicene Creed' in 325AD and then the 'Edict of Milan' just before he died 337 AD, making the Jesus story constitutional law throughout the empire, further stamping Jesus' existence, yet without any evidence. No real eyewitness or material evidence has ever been found as historical sources, to prove Jesus lived. As with all religions, belief is all in the mind. The church pulled a centralised confidence trick, to gain wealth and power. The church's marketing exercise was simply magnificent along with the ultimate logo, notably 'the cross'. The first 1500 years of the Jesus story were based on a strict doctrine and obedience, where questioning and evidence gathering were forbidden, the story of Jesus was just repeated without questioning, and no evidence of Jesus exists.

[jonathansobieski]

Paul tells us women getting impregnated by angels is a potential problem his congregations have to worry about. Celestial genealogy is not exactly crazy in the Pauline context.

[integrationalpolytheism]

1:12:00 Paul admits he never met any historical Jesus. gMark is writing at least twenty years later and CLEARLY doesn't know any more details by Paul, as you clearly exemplified in your recent video with Dennis R Macdonald.

Banging on about "why would Paul/gMark write about this guy as historical if he wasn't?" I mean it's ridiculous. Why do all the people who write Sherlock Holmes books after Arthur Conan Doyle's death write about him as if he had been a real historical person? Just listen to yourself. Paul and gMark had no option but to write fiction because they had little or no details about any historical guy, and they certainly never met such a character in real life.

[jonathansobieski]

So Philo was allegorizing when he talked about the Jesus Angel. Does that mean that Philo was actually talking about an Angel? Just the Angel he was talking about was not one that he thought existed? Or was Philo not talking about an Angel at all?

[wesbaumguardner]

Does it matter if there was a person named Jesus that lived a long time ago that has been mythologized to the point that none of the stories have much of anything to do with the actual Jesus and/or his life? What is the difference between the fictional stories being based on a real person or just being pure fiction conjured out of thin air? Fiction is fiction regardless of what or whom inspired it to be written.

[henrim]

Did Jesus exist is like asking if a random John in NY existed in early 1900s. Jesus was a common name in the area.
Asking the question "Did a man named Jesus who was born from a virgin exist in the first century?". The answer is clearly NO.

[nun_bel_eever]

*Dang. Missed this. Working on other important things....*
*Will be watching later.*

[jojoarms]

Did Jesus Exist? Many Debates I watch gets very heated, But they all use the same evidence and there's nothing new or extra to add but a matter of Interpretation. The best thing to come out of these arguments is that the mythicists have proven parallels and synchronisation in religions and no one belief is unique

[seanl]

Just discovered this channel. Are there any introductory books to recommend?

[integrationalpolytheism]

41:00 - finally a genuine mythicist question, and not even a particularly scathing one. The sudden spluttering and subdermal agitation, however, is palpable.

So Jesus was generated rather than born, Greeks like that, so what? next question...

[integrationalpolytheism]

27:00 this argument is basically just "there is a real New York, with real New Yorkers in it. Stan Lee says that Spider-Man lives in New York so why would I say that Spider-Man lives in outer space?

Solid proof of Spider-Man's existence. .

I mean the real Spider-Man was "just a guy" but he definitely existed.