Criterion of Embarrassment Outside of the Bible

Most of these examples were not hard to find. In fact, two were found with a quick google search. The second example in the video took less than an hour to find after remembering a notable example from history. This should answer the charge by atheists the criterion of embarrassment is not used outside of new testament studies, and again, this was not hard to debunk.

Videos I am responding to:

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[ModernDayDebate]

We hosted Richard Carrier last night and he said during the debate that it's not true that the criterion of embarrassment is only used in NT studies.

Super interesting video, Mike! :)

[spectre]

When atheists say the criterion of embarrassment is never used outside of Biblical studies, just say:
"This is a claim. And claims are not evidence"

[JabberWkie]

Even if the criterion of embarrassment was not used anywhere else, that doesn’t make it any less valid.

[Beastlango]

I had never heard of the criterion of embarrassment no being used by the New Testament, I learned about it in basic philosophy while in college 🤷🏼‍♂️

[bromponie]

♫ _"For the The Histories of Polybius tell me so"_ ♫

[suppeople]

i'm a history major gettingm my ba -Criterion of Embarrassment was like the first few months of what i was taught

[stephendianda]

I can't wait. Really praying that I get out of my current situation and start supporting this ministry.

[doulos]

Their responses are gonna be such a strawman

[ncpolley]

Are they joking??? It's obviously used in historical studies.

[kennystrawnmusic]

The only reason why the criterion of embarrassment is used more often when dealing with biblical claims than with any other ancient sources is because of the hypocrisy that is presuming other ancient sources reliable until proven unreliable while simultaneously presuming the Bible unreliable until proven reliable. That hypocrisy, for the record, is commonplace.

Excellent work Mike.

[kensmith]

These critics ought to use the criterion of embarrassment on themselves

[mackdmara]

Like you said, if people weren't so antichristian when assessing the material, it would be a very different discourse.

[X-pt]

My dear friend, before you uploaded the video, I was reading the Wheel of Time, the book series I cannot lay down for days...but when you uploaded, I finaly left it and clicked the video, that's how good and informative your videos are, God bless you:)!

[nijojohnson]

Dear IP, can you have a Q&A session anytime soon? I am attracted to the CS Lewis way of thinking about Christianity and my favourite video on YT is your video on Hell where you borrowed some ideas from him. But I have so many questions mainly because CS Lewis is not so easy to understand.

Would love some clarity on some of the issues, there may be many like me and you may be one of the best people to help with these.

Thank you again and much love for your efforts. You channel has helped me a lot!

[TheServantSlayer]

Michael, you are just a blessing for Christian Apologetics!

God bless you!

Btw, i really love this part: 13:35

[moznayim]

Criticizing the criterion of embarrassment feels like such a cop-out. The criticism attempts to remove a significant aspect of Scripture that speaks to authorial intent. If the disciples were simply fabricating a story to gain followers and establish a cult with them at the center, why would they paint themselves in such a negative light? That is a major question that needs to be answered, and it cannot simply be written off as "Well, that's not sufficient evidence." Of course it's not sufficient on its own, but when combined with the sum total of evidence at hand, it becomes compelling and demands review.

[InspiringPhilosophy]

Other Uses:

"Perhaps a final reason to accept the credibility of Jefferson's version of the story, then, is that he was not boasting about his political influence, but confessing his profound regret. Why fabricate a tale in which one comes off as a self-confessed dunce?"
– Joseph Ellis, “Founding Brothers” p. 51.

"By applying the same principles to analysis of the Qurʾān, one finds that Muhammad and his earliest followers seem to have similarly believed that their generation would live to see the end of the world. Although the Qurʾān reflects some diversity of opinion regarding the timing of the Hour’s arrival, as with the Jesus traditions, one eschatological position clearly predominates, namely, the Hour’s pressing imminence. Likewise, the response of the unbelievers as depicted by the Qurʾān suggests that Muhammad’s preaching had led them to believe that they would soon behold the Hour’s arrival for themselves (e.g., 19:75, 37:170– 79, 102:3– 5). More importantly, however, it seems highly unlikely that this prevailing voice, warning of the Hour’s immediate approach, is the invention of the later Islamic community, inasmuch as such promises were soon falsified by the passing of Muhammad and his early followers. The criteria of embarrassment and dissimilarity (i.e., dissimilarity with the experience of the early community)— two fundamental methodological principles in the study of the historical Jesus— leave little doubt that the Qurʾān’s eschatological urgency must have originated with Muhammad and the formative community. To be sure, a strong eschatological perspective would persist in later Islam (as it did in Christianity), but it seems highly improbable that later Muslims would insert traditions into the Qurʾān wrongly predicting the Hour’s appearance in the immediate future." 
– Stephen Shoemaker, "The Apocalypse of Empire, " p. 129.

Someone referred me to another use of the criterion of embarrassment or dissimilarly used by Dr. Kaveh Farrokh. It is not as explicit as the ones I used in the video but you can still see the implicit use of the basic principles:

"Perhaps Mr. Schulz is not aware that it was not just “Some Greeks” who praised Cyrus. This is true despite the fact that Classical Greece and the Achaemenid Empire fought many bitter and bloody wars, notably at Marathon (490 BC), Thermopylae and Salamis (480 BC). It is also a fact that the mainland (European) Greeks fought hard against the Achaemenid Empire to retain their independence. Why would a nation that had fought so hard against the Achaemenid Empire, have any reason to selectively“flatter” Cyrus the Great? This is because the Greeks, who excelled in the disciplines of balanced thought and logical thinking realized that just because they were at war with the Achaemenid Empire did not mean that all members and rulers of that Empire were “evil”. Simply put, they did not allow their political passions to bias their views of “the other”, even if that other was a military opponent. Nobody forced the ancient Greeks to describe Cyrus the Great in a favorable manner. The Greeks in fact had written a virtual compendium of Cyrus entitled the Cyropedia of Xenophon."

[gussetma]

This a similar to a well recognize legal exception to the hear say rule. It is called "the declaration against interest." It is understood that we may grant great credulity to a statement from a witness who has made an out of court statement which is against his own interest.

[DerMelodist]

I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet but I’m going to quickly theorize how this is going to go down.
Atheists: The criterion of embarrassment is never used outside of Biblical studies, thus making it a kind of special pleading!
IP: Scholars use this criterion and other historical methods when evaluating all forms of written history: Plutarch, Quran, Hadith, Josephus, Tacitus, American History, European History, etc. It is a Historical Method for all forms of history, not just Biblical studies.
Atheists: It still didn’t happen!
IP: I have a video about bias that you really should check out.

[thuggie]

Even thought I am not Christian I find it tiresome how many rip into new testament writings trying to disprove even the periods, and exclamation marks youtube is littered with second rate videos like that