Response to Horn and Akin on Icons

In this video I respond to Jimmy Akin and Trent Horn on the veneration of icons.

Truth Unites is a mixture of apologetics and theology, with an irenic focus.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.

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00:00 - Introduction
01:31 - Defending Truth Unites
08:10 - Is Icon Veneration Tertiary?
10:46 - What is an Anathema?
11:52 - Sola Scriptura
13:25 - Doctrinal Development
22:02 - What is Idolatry?

[MichaelKlaassen-nm]

“If you want this to be a tertiary issue maybe lay off the anathemas.”
😂

[thecommonnarrative]

Im Eastern Orthodox, and I find your videos theologically insightful for the Protestant position. Thank you for the work you put in; I think some of the RC & EO channels could learn from you. Side note, a 30 minute rebuttal to a 3 hour rebuttal is a solid power move lol

[natecesky]

You're filling an important gap in online theological dialogues. Thank you for you continued hard work!

[HacimBricks]

As a Catholic I gotta say I was disappointed with Trent and Jimmy's video. For such a long rebuttal from 2 of the best Catholic Apologists the arguments felt kinda mediocre and Jimmy especially was lacking some charity. I think you have presented your case in a much better way, and as you stated, I think this issue and many others come down to the application of Doctrinal Development and if Church teaching is actually consistent throughout history or not. It's an issue you have inspired me to do more personal reading on, so thank you for that! And I look forward to seeing you in person at your debate with Trent!

[sohamgupta]

I am a Catholic student of theology, but you’re definitely one of the most kind, charitable and intelligent Protestant critics of Catholicism I’ve come across.

[marianhreads]

I don't see a lot of people in the public eye striving for both truth AND irenicism, period. I pray you continue on this difficult path. Your approach goes beyond theology and apologetics - it demonstrates how we can honor Christ even in viciously decisive times.

[jeremiahc]

"And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." Galatians 6:9 NKJV

[mj]

"If you want this to be a less significant issue, maybe lay off the anathemas." Exactly. Roman Catholics really back themselves into a corner with all their anathemas.

[philoalethia]

Roman and other Orthodox apologists on icon veneration: "Icons are not a big deal, but you'll go to hell if you don't believe and act just like I do."

I was once really impressed and persuaded by Roman apologetics -- enough so that I was persuaded to join the Church of Rome for decades. I don't know if I was an idiot and have somewhat matured since then, or Roman and Orthodox apologetics have basically become little more than a dumpster fire.

[joeoleary]

Michael Lofton's channel posted a video today on this debate. Someone in the comments there accused Gavin of working in bad faith and misrepresenting Catholicism. I replied and respectfully asked him for evidence. Lofton immediately banned me from his "Reason" channel.

[KristiLEvans]

Yeah, you just gotta overlook that. What I suspect they really mean is, “Gavin, please stop. You’re making our lives harder.” Lol. Your research is thorough and well-grounded, scripturally and historically. Stand on the truth the best you can and let go of the rest.

[costa]

I'm learning so much from you ....and I'm a Protestant non Calvinist but we're brothers in Christ.

[benjaminread]

I tried watching Akin's video but I stopped after half an hour. The amount of insults, lazy arguments, and dodging of arguments was appalling, and Trent thought he could just sit behind him and afirm him for rapport.

You handle the demeaning comments and misrepresentation very well. I think it's telling that it takes so many apologists to refute one video by one man.

[Christian-utsp]

Gavin thank you so much! Your charity makes you an easy target, and I was really hoping you didn’t accept the condescension and mischaracterisation from the response offered by Jimmy Akin & Trent Horn. I for one was shocked at the personal jibes. As soon as I heard Jimmy Akin make an issue out of the thumbnail I knew their video would not be fair.

And just as a note I respect Jimmy Akin, I was just particularly disappointed by that response.

[jfitz]

I respect you so much Gavin. Keep up the phenomenal work, my wife & I are praying for you!

[joehayward]

As one who has been listening to you for a while now, I just wanted to thank you Pastor Ortlund for your work. A few years ago I began to seriously look into Catholicism, and then Orthodoxy, all prompted by a painful Baptist church split. After much study and prayer I’ve come full circle now and am so grateful for my Baptist upbringing and my parents emphasis on Sola Scriptura and Solus Christus. The two hurdles I could never cross were the subject of Mary, infant baptism, and Icons. God used your videos, and those of Joshua Schooping, on these subjects as a wakeup call. I’m ashamed that I got so caught up in the externals, but I did learn a lot and the whole experience caused me to search the scriptures more and draw closer to God. I look forward to thanking you personally in His kingdom.

[IvanAlvarezCPACMA]

Yes, the literal interpretation of scripture is the hill I'm willing to die on. Hence, Catholicism falls apart against the weight of the scriptures.

Exactly! They claim these are minor issues, yet, leave no room to believe otherwise for disagreement means Anathema.

[joshuanadeem]

Thank you very much Gavin for your rebuttal response. I think these secondary comments to "rebuttals" are exceptionally valuable for us lay Christians as they give a rough examination of the quality of the "rebuttal" from a POV of someone more informed on the discussion.

[mitromney]

Thank you so much dr Gavin! In my opinion, the reason for personal attacks and mockery from Trent and Jimmy is that you've become a very strong opponent, theologically and apologetically, to mostly uncontested Catholic Apologists who've claimed youtube for themselves years ago. You're the cause of their overtime, literally! :) To me, that's even more of a reason to encourage you to keep going! Truth doesn't require ad hominems to shine and people can see it.

[repentantrevenant]

Thank you so much for your irenic and winsome approach, Gavin. You truly embody the teaching of Titus 2:8:

“In your teaching show integrity, seriousness and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.”
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