Lutheran Vs Calvinistic Views of Justification

This video is from a recent podcast in which I discuss whether there are differences between the Lutheran and Reformed traditions on the doctrine of justification.

[jamesmeyer]

It's refreshing to be challenged on areas like this from the Lutheran perspective. It's much more interesting and in my opinion important than Calvinism vs arminianism

[bphifer]

I agree with a lot of this but regarding the difference in justification it seems almost like a difference in rhetoric. As a reformed guy I do tend to think of justification as a one time thing, but what happens at justification is all my sins, past, present, and FUTURE are forgive and there is now no condemnation. So while I’ve always kind of spoken of justification as the step before sanctification, I don’t disagree that it happens continually.

One thing that I’m really liking about what you’re saying is the emphasis on faith being a gift of God. Perhaps us reformed don’t differentiate between faith and belief and make belief an action we are to do. I think it would serve us well to emphasize more that faith is a gracious gift.

Lastly...I’m not some scholar. Honestly, I’m not that smart. Just someone who’s aligned with reformed thinking most of my Christian life and trying to learn and stretch and go

[TheRoark]

As a reformed Christian I have definitely seen people despair about not being able to do something to be sure of their elect status, but I am not sure that telling them that they can lose their salvation is really going to comfort them. At least, it wouldn’t make me more assured of my salvation, rather it would make me constantly worried that I have failed and lost my salvation.

I know Luther was a Monergist, but would modern Lutherans be considered monergists since our wills can override God’s will for our salvation?

[SonOfTheLion]

This video was very helpful. I've recently converted and was curious about denominations. My father was a Lutheran and my mother was a Methodist. I was reasonably sure I preferred Lutheranism to the "Born Again" denominations. However, I was foggy on how Lutherans differed on predestination and election from Calvinists. This differentiated and presented both sides very clearly. My concern was that Calvinists putting election above predestination seemed to contradict God's desire for all to be saved. The more I heard the Lutheran take the surer I was that I am a Lutheran.

[stephenjackson]

Luther and the Reformed did not fail to reach unity over Justification. The real problem was that the Reformed insisted on an infinite distinction between God and Man and Luther continued to hold to the notion that Salvation results in Imparting the Divine Nature to man. Since Luther is now in heaven praising his Saviour, I am certain he clearly understands the infinite difference between a perfectly holy finite human nature, and the infinite, eternal, and unchangeable nature of God.

[Joseph-yxjp]

Thank you for this! After listening your review of Paul Washer, some of Flame’s album, and this, I’m glad I didn’t fall completely into the Reformed circles. I almost fell into looking at my sanctification for my primary assurance, but the objective work of Christ is a greater reassurance!

[hansimgluck]

It's important to distinguish between the Lutheran doctrine of justification as set forth in the Book of Concord, and the synodical doctrines of justification that have arisen in the North American Lutheran synods since Walther.

The confessional Lutheran church fathers who authored the Book of Concord taught justification to be solely individual, through faith alone. One of the heresies they had to address was brought in by Huber, who taught that the whole world was justified – a general justification – but that there was also a second, particular justification that applied to individuals who apparently hadn't been covered by this "justification of the world". The Wittenberg faculty expelled Huber for false teaching.

When the first emigrants arrived in the United States and the LCMS was formed, the Huberian doctrine of a "general" and of a "particular" justification was revived, and is taught today in the synods as "Objective Justification" (LCMS) or "Universal Objective Justification" (WELS) with counterpart "Subjective Justification" – as though there were two justifications, or as though justification had two component parts.

But the orthodox Lutheran doctrine of justification as set forth in the Book of Concord is of a universal atonement, and of an individual justification which is by faith alone.

In distinction to the present-day North American synodical doctrines, the original orthodox Lutheran doctrine is not of a "justification of the world" but rather of a universal atonement, the benefit of which is received by the individual only through the gift of faith which comes from God – and that is the original, orthodox Lutheran doctrine of justification.

[j.harris]

Maybe discuss how this also fits into Luther’s “Bondage of the Will” or how the Reformed misunderstand it.

[joshualindley]

There is often a disconnect between defining a term such as justification and others, and the spiritual/mental outliving of such systematic terms. Coming from a reformed perspective I don't think that anyone you talk to would not agree that justification is always a present reality but it did as you also agree have a beginning point.

[heresyhunters]

Reformed guy here. I always like the analysis from Dr. Cooper, but it seems like in some of these cases, he's trying to draw distinctions when there really are none. For example, towards the close of the video, he takes on Reformed guy (with no reference to who it is) as an example to contrast Lutheran vs. Reformed preaching on Law and Gospel. I think the vast majority of Reformed preachers would insist that some gospel must always be present in any giving of the law. And virtually every Reformed author I've read sees justification as a reality whose significance permeates the entirety of our Christian life. So it seems like in some areas, he's almost searching to create distinctions when there is little to no difference. k

[ninjacell]

Bavinck says that the Reformed would hold that infants can be regenerated by God's Spirit and can receive the "seed of faith".

Where does the idea that there are two justifications come from?

[bcpfinishes]

Interesting talk on these subjects I wish we had more of these types of subjects in conversation at the church I attend. I'm not sure I understand your viewpoint on justification. As a reformed believer( Presbyterian) Justification is a forensic legal matter whereas it is applied to the believer and every day after that they remain justified. It sounds like you are saying that justification is re-applied over and over as if it is a spiritual substance being imputed again and again and again. Is this stated in Lutheran confessions?

[zekdom]

5:12 Predestination and justification are related.

5:19 “… justification is the execution of predestination”

[jessegarvey]

So if Justification is the cause of our Sanctification. Wouldn’t that be making our justification do something in motion and not just a forensic, legal, declaration? Help me out here Jordan? I’ve read Gerhard O Forde on the Lutheran view on sanctification. Even though I’m a Calvinist I do mostly agree with that view. And I think the 3rd use of the law is for information not motivation. But how does justification become active causing us to do something if it’s just a legal declaration?

[paulburdine]

Thanks for this and the recommendations on justification. I'm looking more deeply into these things and the differences with reformed theology

[Tim-AlexPowell]

Do people who are reformed and lutheran view each other as brothers in christ with different perspectives or as false converts?

[joshnelson]

About justification being a present reality throughout our lives Michael Horton writes...”While all of this happens definitively, once and for all, when we are converted, it is a lifelong process as well: We are always becoming Christians ‘again’ every day, realizing afresh in our lives the power of Word and Spirit in our baptism into Christ. Repentance and faith are always renewed daily.”

-pg 150 “A Better Way”

[patrickbarnes]

Regarding the steps of having 1) justification unto salvation, 2) receiving that salvation through faith, and 3) a decree to bring people to the 2 previously mentioned universal gifts: How are the gifts universal if you need to be decreed to receive them, and conversely, what purpose does a decree serve if the gifts are already universal? I'm confused.

[sophianikolai]

hello again. I want to revisit again where you said "justification is re-enacted every day". Is this also meaning justification is a constant-unwavering state we are in? Or are you saying each day as we sin we lose justification until the next day justification is re-enacted?

[sophianikolai]

So just to confirm- when you say justification is a daily reality that causes sanctification- you're not saying this in terms of justification being an ongoing progressive progress right? (like catholics presume). You're rather saying God keeps us each day, declaring us righteous every day- lest we lose faith. We do not merit any more justification tomorrow than we do today by our works in sanctification. Correct?