Difference between Lutheran and Calvinian Predestination

How is the Lutheran doctrine of predestination different from the Calvinian doctrine? Are single and double predestination a distinction without a difference?

[nikomonk]

If I could throw in my two cents’ worth on the discussion in the comments about passages from Jude - it interests me very much that when Luther did his first Bible translation, he placed 4 books at the end in an appendix as he had doubts about their canonicity. Jude was one of these, and I can certainly see his point, due to the quotations from Enoch, and the strange anecdote about the body of Moses. Perhaps Jude is not an inspired book, and this would be a way to solve the perplexity of the commenter, Pastor. I hope my opinion is taken lightly and does not cause offence!

[casparbrock]

Thanks for an honest response. I will try and understand your explanation in lieu of Romans 9 and Christ's commentary to his parable of the Wheat and the Tares Mt. 13: 38, 39 and to Genesis 3:15. And not to forget the Epistle of Jude, esp vs.4.
As an aside, it's difficult for me to understand your fast talking lack of an accent. I'm a native Texan. Would you work on adding a little drawl, please? I mean, since you're here. 😉

[llamasarus]

So, in other words, God predestined the method but not the outcome?

[LeicesterTradCatholic]

Didn't Luther teach that man became totally depraved by the effects of original sin, rendering him incapable of accepting or co-operating with God's grace from his own will? If this is the case, then Calvin brings this theory of Luther (which I don't think the Bible teaches) to it's logical conclusion. If there is no human free will involved in salvation, then both salvation and damnation boils down entirely to whatever God decrees. Logically, there's no getting around this.

[IronPyromancer]

Now in all fairness, there is a very notable difference between the types of Calvinism beyond one sounding nicer than the other. And that is that the first implies that God ordains people not just to salvation, but to damnation as well. The huge problem with this is that it implies that God is giving people an inclination toward sin, and working sin into them, which can't be true as a worker of iniquity God is not. As opposed to the latter that allows moreso that God does not make people sinful, but instead passes over them to allow them to work in their own iniquity, many saying that he not only passes over them, but blatantly doesn't acknowledge them, taking Christ's words of "depart from me, I never knew you" in the most literal sense.

[sophianikolai]

Hi Pastor! I was wondering if calvin and luther differences are less critical differences VS like differences in protestant theology VS catholic theology. For example, do calvinist and lutherans agree on justification and salvation, but rather disagree more so in predestination etc?

[Outrider]

You realize you're going to have to explain the difference between Arminian and Lutheran predestination now, right? ;)

[ChristopherAlsruhe-siff]

Um, The Bible never uses the term predestination to refer to election to salvation. Predestination and election are not the exact same thing, and election is used with multiple and different applications. Predestination always refers to the qualitative destiny of those who will believe in Jesus Christ, such as predestined to be conformed to the image of God 's Son. Predestination never refers to getting saved but to the qualitative result of salvation.

[StaunchlyLutheran]

Do you have any vids or maybe a quick answer?
How do lutherans view the reformed doctrine of compatablism?
That determinism and free will are compatible?

[LivingLambsVeganKitchen]

Pastor Sullivan, it seems to me that Jude 4 might indicate double predestination ("...who were of old ordained to this condemnation...") and also 1 Peter 2:8 ("...being disobedient: whereunto they were also appointed"), although I think 1 Peter 2:8 has a less "permanent" feel to it. What are your thoughts, particularly re Jude 4, please? Perhaps I am misunderstanding. Quotes from KJV. Many thanks!!

[chrismachin]

Romans Chapter 9 is the reason Lutheran theology is wrong. Limited atonement ( particular atonement, irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints, fit perfectly in this chapter. Rejection of these theological understandings doesn’t make sense when trying to understand Romans chapter 9.

[matiasgamalieltolmosuarez]

Calvinist predestination have gone too far, by saying that God has elected some to salvation and others to damnation, they would be nullifying a large part of the biblical doctrine of salvation.
If we are destined to be saved by God, (which apparently is totally random because there is no reason to save some and condemn others) then sin would have little or no meaning in human life since he who sins but is "predestined" will be forgiven, and it would even be affecting the same grace by which we are all saved since NO ONE had the characteristics to be saved, NO ONE ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, but thanks to Jesus Christ, ALL WHO COME TO HIM are justified by his grace. If we say that there are some who were already chosen from eternity then GOD WOULD NOT BE JUST, God gives according to the actions of humans, also to say that God does not break covenants and promises is a total lie, in the Bible shows when God changes his mind, and it is not because he does not know everything, but because of love towards humans.
In fact, let's see with adam and eve, God surely knew in his eternity that adam and eve were going to sin and that later they were going to repent, but if we say that they were predestined then we take away their guilt, if they were predestined to be saved then the sin of disobedience means nothing, and if they were predestined to damnation, then God would have moved and coordinated everything to condemn the first man and the first woman???? is totally illogical and not biblical.
And besides, it is not what Christians have believed for so many centuries if it is true that salvation is by grace, and that grace is for EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM, without exception, if we say that there are some predestined for damnation, and they come to Christ then the blood of Christ would not be enough to deliver them from damnation, clearly Calvinist predestination is VERY WRONG.
We are all condemned, but Jesus by coming to die for all has the power to restore and save from condemnation EVERYONE WHO COMES TO HIM.

[Rich-vpih]

If God 'isn't willing that any should perish', why didn't God predestine all? (Since Lutherans hold to predestination).

[ver-ilpc]

Ask the Pastor:
Some calvinists say Luther would have agreed with the 5 points of calvinism. And that the reason why today most Lutherans don't believe in the TULIP is because lutherans departed from Luther's teachings because of Melachton. Is that true? What are Luther's writings where we can check whether or not he believed in double predestination and in all the tulip points?

[josephjones]

What’s the difference between elca and lcms

[ausonius]

Jerome Zanchi was the best theologian ever! (John Gill is also extremely good) While Calvin is very good. Luther is in the same category as Augustine or Tertullian. Good but also a muddlehead.

[alterglobo]

For Protestants, as with Sunnis in Islam, how you act with the next one, including the VERY LIFE EXAMPLE of Christ in loving the next as much as you love thyself, a devotion to the well-being of the next, does NOT play a role in Salvation, and more concretely God's approbation of your merits.

Max Weber was right that the spirit of individualistic capitalism is rooted in Protestant "ethics", which, since it no longer deals with our acts and merely with our cognitive processes (faith, in Luther) or not even that (in Calvin) is no longer an ethics.

Those corrupt Italic clergymen created this hybris and, as science is yelling, apocalypse.

Good luck with green individualism, consumerism, capitalism. Disregard for earthly Justice and the suffering of other Beings.

[EmV-sieu]

God from the beginning did not elect people to salvation??? Uuhh, OOOPPS!!!

[henjalammisao]

Thanks for the video. New subscriber✋ Need ur email for questions.