The Assumption of Mary: Protestant Critique

The Bodily Assumption of Mary is an infallible dogma of the Roman Catholic Church. Many of the Eastern traditions hold to a similar view. In this video I offer a historical critique of the assumption from a Protestant perspective.

Truth Unites is a mixture of apologetics and theology, with an irenic focus.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.

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PODCAST:

00:00 - Introduction
01:26 - 1. Why It's Important
06:10 - 2. Summary of Scholarship
12:20 - 3. Historical Overview
28:37 - 4. What About Revelation 12?
31:04 - Final Appeal

[reepicheepsfriend]

As a very young kid from a Protestant family, I used to think that the word "Assumption" meant that Catholics "assumed" things about Mary that they didn't actually know.😂

[bethsaari]

I appreciate these insights so much. These are not blind, half-hearted attempts at disproving another belief system. They are careful, well studied, open-minded, eye-opening truths that have been weighed against history and God’s word. Well done and thank you.

[korenful]

For me the clearest condemnation of this dogma is the following: It is not either very well supported, nor relevant to the christian faith. Making it a dogma and, therefore, a necessity for salvation is just an addition to the gospel and it is clearly a sectarian behavior. I don't see any way around it.

[johnnygnash]

This guy is an absolute treasure! So charitable and kind in presenting his position, and so willing to dig, dig, dig to buttress it. A gentle and generous spirit matched by a beautiful mind. Thank you so much for sharing yourself, Dr Ortlund!

[MPIChicago]

Catholic Apologist: Normal Monday.

Gavin: Here is a 30min critique of a Catholic dogma.

Catholic Apologist: Clear my schedule I need to make a 4hr response.

[jessicamiller]

This was such a helpful review of the historical evidence!! I admire how you are able to bring a critique in such a loving and respectful way while not shying away from the seriousness of the concerns. Your channel has really helped me to understand some of the core issues that divide Roman Catholics from other Christian traditions so that I can discuss the subjects with others in a more informed way.

[amandacarmel]

Ohhh I LOVED seeing your son walk in to such a loving greeting! That warmed my heart ❤

[brianetheredge]

As an ex-Catholic, fully trained in liturgical Latin as a child, your pronunciation of "Munificentissimus Deus" ('scuse me while I untie my fingers after typing that) is spot on...took me a month to learn how to sing similar Latin words when I was a kid!

As a believer in God's sovereignty, I also agree that these Marian dogmas, these doctrines of Marian veneration, are cause to abandon faith in the Roman Catholic Church as the single church for Christians established by Christ. When a church puts a woman, no matter how amazing a woman she was, in a position to mediate/advocate for lost sinners on par with, and sometimes in front of, Christ Himself, there are other aberrant things that need to be addressed for that church to come back into alignment with that we are taught in the NT.

We have one advocate to the Father, and Christ Jesus, God the Son, IS that Advocate who declares us "not guilty" in the presence of the Father (1 John 2:1).

[micahwatz]

I went to a Catholic wedding and when i hear the priest instruct the couple to go pray to Mary during one part of the ceremony it hit me like a ton of bricks. That was when I realized this stuff was very strange. Bowing and praying to a statue of Mary at the wedding. Just was strange.

[Vanessa-gizm]

I've been studying a lot into church history and trying to decipher all these early (or recent in the case) doctrines and I want to say your videos have been helpful in the overwhelming amount of other Catholic and Orthodox videos I've been watching. It's been helpful to hear another outside perspective of why docterines that in theory sounds great and should help the Church, don't actually follow under scrutiny. Honestly, I'd be Catholic right now if it weren’t for the infallibility of the dogmas which were meant to protect and validate the church. If making certain dogma (like the many Marian doctrine) turns out wrong and it's already made infallible, it tears apart all creditbility of the Church, which is kind of unfortunate in my opinion because the RC Church has a lot of good and rich history and if it weren't for certain doctrine like veneration of icons and saints and Mary, among a few, I'd probably be Catholic. Because I agree with a lot of the other core values of Catholicism.
Again, thank you Gavin!

[ninalove]

I’ve been binging on your videos lately; thank you for all of the research and work that you do and share with us. It’s all immensely valuable! But I have to say, I do wish you would delve into the Marian Apparitions (such as Fatima), and into the Rosary. It all kind of… feeds the Roman Catholic culture AND these Marian Dogmas. Hopefully it’ll become an interest of yours at some point. In any case, thanks again.

[James_Wisniewski]

As a cradle Catholic, this dogma was the first one I couldn't square that made me question Catholicism.

[christopherlapeyrouse]

Thank you Gavin. Excellent commentary and greatly appreciated.

[coolmuso]

The EARLIEST commentaries we have on Revelation 12 all agree that the woman is the Church - no mention of Mary anywhere. That only starts to pop up in the latter half of the millennium when Marian devotion begins to go through the roof.

St. Hippolytus of Rome (170-235)

“By the woman then clothed with the sun, he meant most manifestly the CHURCH, endued with the Father's word, whose brightness is above the sun. And by the “moon under her feet” he referred to her being adorned, like the moon, with heavenly glory. And the words,  “upon her head a crown of twelve stars, ” refer to the twelve apostles by whom the Church was founded. And those,  “she, being with child, cries, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered, ” mean that the Church will not cease to bear from her heart the Word that is persecuted by the unbelieving in the world. “And she brought forth, ” he says,  “a man-child, who is to rule all the nations; ”by which is meant that the Church, always bringing forth Christ, the perfect man-child of God, who is declared to be God and man, becomes the instructor of all the nations.”
(On the Christ and Antichrist).

St. Victorinus of Pettau (270-303):

“The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient CHURCH of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles, which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ, the fruit of its people according to the flesh long promised to it, had taken flesh out of the selfsame people.”
(Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John).

St. Methodius of Olympus (died 311)

“The woman who appeared in heaven clothed with the sun, and crowned with twelve stars, and having the moon for her footstool, and being with child, and travailing in birth, is certainly, according to the accurate interpretation, our mother, O virgins, being a power by herself distinct from her children; whom the prophets, according to the aspect of their subjects, have called sometimes Jerusalem, sometimes a Bride, sometimes Mount Zion, and sometimes the Temple and Tabernacle of God. For she is the power which is desired to give light in the prophet, the Spirit crying to her: Isaiah 60:1-4… It is the CHURCH whose children shall come to her with all speed after the resurrection, running to her from all quarters.”
(Banquet of the Ten Virgins)

Tyconius of Carthage (370-390)

“A woman, he says, clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet. Frequently it has been said that the general is divided into many separate particulars, which are one and the same thing.5 For what heaven is, the temple in heaven is, the woman clothed with the sun is, and the moon under her feet is, as if he had said: “a woman clothed with the sun and a woman under her feet, ” or “the moon clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet.” For all things are bipartite. He says that the CHURCH has a part of herself that is under her feet.”
(Exposition of the Apocalypse).

[MRBosnoyan]

Thanks Dr. Ortland!

Mary plays a major role in Catholic devotion. I work at a Catholic (salesian) school. The kids greet Mary every morning and say the Hail Mary multiple times a day. The staff says the Hail Mary before and after every staff meeting.

When I visited my family in Italy during the feast of the Assumption (mid August), a large statue of Mary adorned with flowers was paraded around the city…. Much like the Japanese Shintoists carrying a Mikoshi during their summer festivals.

I’m surprised How little head scratching it causes.

[wooster]

As usual, Gavin presents a quiet, thoughtful summary of the facts. I do admire his charity in the face of some of the comments made against him. God Bless you all my brothers and sisters of whatever side of the fence you are.

[alexxxlunaa]

hey gavin, im catholic and just today i was actually looking into the bodily assumption to see what the grounds are for it, so pretty cool that i found this vid.
just wanted to say that i think you did very well with your presentation and made good points, as well as coming across very respectfully!
i believe in the dogma, but regardless of our different views, i thoroughly enjoyed what you put on the table, and i enjoyed learning about the more historical aspect through the information you provided!
God bless and have a great day!

[josueinhan]

Gavin, I just wanted to Express my gratitude for this video. Thank you very much! You raised so many important questions... and all of them based on a solid research. Congratulations. I felt priviledged to watch this video - and also its continuation in response do Albrecth. As soon as I get time I'll read Shoemaker's works.

Ps: I hope to see you soon in a Christian Conference here in Brazil. 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷 It would be great.

God bless you

[jasonengwer]

I want to expand upon a good point made by Dr. Ortlund. He brings up the issue of ancient sources discussing assumptions and similar events among other figures (e.g., Enoch) without mentioning Mary in the process. He cites some material from Tertullian as an illustration. Since the nature of the argument is such that it gains significantly more force when more sources are cited, it's important to address a larger number of sources. Many more can be added to Tertullian. For example: Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5:5; Origen, in Thomas Scheck, trans., Origen: Commentary On The Epistle To The Romans, Books 1-5 (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University Of America Press, 2001), 5:4:3, p. 340; Methodius, From The Discourse On The Resurrection, 3:2:14; Apostolic Constitutions, 5:7; Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 3:6; John Chrysostom, Homilies On John, 75; Jerome, To Pammachius Against John Of Jerusalem, 29, 32; Faustus, cited in Augustine, Reply To Faustus The Manichaean, 26:1; Augustine, On The Grace Of Christ, And On Original Sin, 2:27. Since Roman Catholics have disagreed about whether Mary died prior to being assumed to heaven, the contexts in which Mary could be mentioned will vary somewhat depending on what view of whether she died is held. If we combine both views, think of the contexts in which Mary could be mentioned:

- People who didn't die.
- People who have been raised from the dead.
- People who have experienced resurrection to an immortal body rather than just being raised in the sense of resuscitation.
- People who were bodily taken up to heaven.
- People who are currently living in the afterlife in a bodily state, prior to the general resurrection in the future.

We find these topics discussed in scripture and the patristic literature, frequently in some cases. So, it's not just that Mary's alleged assumption goes unmentioned in one context or on some small handful of occasions. Rather, it's unmentioned across a large number and variety of contexts and occasions for hundreds of years while other figures keep getting mentioned over and over again (e.g., Enoch, Elijah, Paul). And we're often told by Catholics that Mary was held in such high regard by the earliest Christians, that she's the greatest being after God, etc. You'd expect an assumption of Mary to have been prominent in their thinking accordingly if they'd believed in her assumption.

[yuvalbreitgand]

Have been waiting for this one for a long time😁great ministry btw