The Gold Plates: Is Joseph Smith's Story Possible? (w/ Bill McKeever)

Bill McKeever of Mormonism Research Ministry (MRM.org) talks about the problem with the story of Joseph Smith and the Gold Plates that contained the Book of Mormon. In many ways, the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of the LDS Church. Joseph Smith began the Restoration with the Book of Mormon, and Moroni's entrusting Joseph with the Gold Plates sparked the Latter-day Saint movement. But is the story of the Gold Plates even plausible?

The problem of the Gold Plates is not just a problem of misunderstanding Joseph Smith's history. If the story is false, there are two possibilities: (1) Joseph Smith made up the story, and that's why he had the plates covered in front of other people, or (2) Joseph Smith exaggerated the details to make the story seem more dramatic. Both of these are significant issues! If Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, the Prophet of the Restoration of Christ's Church, then even having him blur some of the details would be a significant issue! Yet, the story (as it currently stands) seems impossible to be true.

As Christians, we don't need to wonder if our prophet makes mistakes. Our living prophet is Jesus, the Lord and Savior of all those who believe. Joseph Smith (and the other LDS Prophets) are far more problematic. They disagree, change their minds, and teach conflicting doctrines. The story of the Gold Plates is just one additional proof—Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Jesus warned about such people. Reject Joseph Smith, and turn in faith to Jesus—the true "living prophet."

Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’ As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’” (Hebrews 3:7-11)

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#JosephSmith #MRM #GodLovesMormons #Christianity #LDSChurch #Apologetics #GoldPlates #Moroni #TheRestoration

[philipplank]

I pray the Mormons that see this come to know the True Savior Jesus Christ!

[marleymae]

It was reading the New Testament that got me out of Mormonism, and into my personal relationship with Jesus.

[-Cigars]

As a "buff farm boy" I can confirm that Joseph's story is not feasible even if the plates are 80lbs.

[ulisscarple]

Bill Speaks so clearly that this video is readily watchable / listenable at 150 % play back speed. Good work !!!

[johnjones_]

A fun question I often raise with Mormons, Joseph Smith got out of militia service to go fight in one of the Indian Wars, because he was crippled. He had a leg that was injured as a child from a surgery to remove a growth of some kind, and he walked with a painful limp. So either he is lying about his running and dodging through the woods, or he lied to get out of military service during war and was essentially a draft dodger. So the question is, which one was he lying about, and now that we established he was a liar, what else did he lie about?

[bhendy]

That should be a contest on the World's Strongest Man. Take a 200-pound weight and run 3 miles. Call it the Joseph Smith run.

[johns]

The Book of Mormon initially seems logical and sounds like ‘Another Testimony of Jesus Christ’. Joseph Smith would later describe a Jesus radically different from the Bible Jesus which seems more like a testimony of 'another' Jesus Christ.

Apostle Paul warns of teaching another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and goes on to explain in verses 14 and 15; “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

[brannonburton]

Both David Whitmer and Martin Harris went out of their way to bury the notion that they hadn’t physically handled the plates. You’d have to ignore the vast majority of their statements to come to the “vision” argument. I hope the man on the video is just ignorant instead of deceptive.

[thomasmaughan]

"Is Joseph Smith's Story Possible?"
Yes. What seems impossible is for him to produce the Book of Mormon in 60 days, from scratch, without education or resources. This would be an easy thing to test; pick out a 21 year old farm boy that has never been to school, maybe a bit of home schooling, set him down with a scribe and in 60 days produce a book similar to the Book of Mormon.

[johnroberts]

As a believing Latter-day Saint, I have no problem with the descriptions of the plates that Joseph Smith, family members and associates gave. The Darius gold plates, by contrast, are square, measuring 13 x 13 inches (33 x 33 cm) and .63 inches (1.6 cm) thick.

The plates of the Book of Mormon, as reported by witnesses who saw, felt, hefted and handled them, describe them as weighing 60-65 pounds, having the appearance of gold and being rectangular, about 6 x 8 inches in size. We also don’t know how small the characters were on the plates. They may have been quite small for all we know. By placing a straight-edge (ruler) on the plate and using it to etch the characters in a neat line, the smaller the character, the more could be fit per line, per page, front and back.

The real miracle is the Book of Mormon itself. If Joseph Smith made the whole thing up, why gold plates? No engravings on gold plates had ever been found, and when the Darius plates were subsequently discovered, they were in a stone or cement box and covered with a stone, rounded on top, very similar to Smith’s account.

Coincidence?

How did Smith concoct the gold plates idea? And how did he know the tiniest details of the Arabian Peninsula? How did he know about the valley with a “river of water” running through it, and emptying into the Red Sea? How did he know about NHM (“Nahom”)? And that it was a burial site? How did he know about that tropical area on the east coast that describes Bountiful? How did he know it had trees for shipbuilding, ore for making tools, dramatic cliffs, bees and honey, various types of grain, a mountain Nephi could ascend for communing with the Lord, and inland harbor areas he could use for constructing a ship?

How did he know to write complex chiasms and other obscure Hebraisms, and how did he dictate the book for hours on end, looking into a hat and never having any of the manuscript read back to him? And bottom line, if he were a fraud, why did he even _need_ a Book of Mormon? If you take the entire “Restoration” construct and remove the Book of Mormon from the equation, you still have a credible foundation story. Why even bother writing something you might be caught concocting? After all, Smith was writing a story so completely different in time, place and culture. Why risk it all by writing a whole new book of scripture? And if it is a concoction, why hasn’t he been caught?

The plates may have been only _partially_ gold, and the composition of the pages may be different through the years. Many anti-Mormon publications questioned the concept of writing on metal. One recent discovery of the Maya hierglyphics reveals a single character, the translation of which is, “And it came to pass.” With no knowledge of the language or the construction of the sentences, to attack the plates themselves is futile. You really need to tell us where the Book of Mormon came from and who wrote it. And good luck with that!

[TestifyApologetics]

Now this is the kind of evidential thinking that people should be doing when witnessing to Mormons! Excellent.

[jonathanbaca]

I love this man, he knows what he's talking about.

[brannonburton]

That’s a new one. Joseph has a limp and therefore couldn’t run. This ignores the extensive history about Joseph’s physical prowess. He was known to be unbelievably strong as he wrestled and and played games with people. This is well documented.

[W.A.J.J.]

But how can you believe in walking on water, water to wine, parting the Red Sea, Samson, and everything else that goes along with the Bible?

What fantasy’s do you decide to believe are true?

[garys.]

I like how their excuses are 1)God helped him carry them, or 2)It wasn't Gold, but gold alloy, so of course he could do it. Either way, they have an excuse for everything.

[ItsSnagret]

Ya'll believe God parted the Red Sea and that the Son of God came back to life but you don't believe God could help Joseph carry heavy plates....

[gilbertmiraflor]

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to naught:

39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

[jimsmith]

Compare he Book of Mormon with the Bible. It doesn't line up. How many times has the Book of Mormon been
edited and/or rewritten?? The bible is the work of God inspired by God. The Book of Mormon is a creation inspired by Joseph Smith.

[brannonburton]

Joseph Smith

“These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance
of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches
long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with
engravings, in Egyptian characters, and bound together in a volume
as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the
whole.”

It’s quite possible that the plates were a gold alloy. I bought my wife a gold wedding ring, but it’s clearly not pure gold. The plates shown in this video were machine rolled and cut to fit perfectly on top of one another. Not hand pounded and engraved upon.

This is straining at a gnat when the mere existence of the Book of Mormon is a miracle that testifies of Christ.

[anichols]

Joseph himself declared that "no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing. Persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny (false and defamatory statements/slander) may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent until it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done."

So try as you might your efforts will never have the power to make the slightest dent in the progression of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Instead, you will feel darkness, depression, anger, and sorrow when you realize your words destroy the faith of a few and thus send them into wicked paths as a result of poisoining their ability to believe.

God has never directed a people to slander another church. Instead of engaging in such disbelief I encourage you to repent. Something the true people of God love to do continually. And I encourage you to use the same energy you use to criticize and disbelieve and do the opposite by deciding to believe and exercise faith in reading the Book of Mormon with a believing heart and I promise you that the shackles of disbelief will fall from your eyes as your hearts soften, thus allowing the Holy Spirit to penetrate your hearts with truth which power will cause you to be struck with awe and wonder. And then you will rejoice in truth and realize the power doubt and disbelief had over you, which kept you from truth until you decided to believe.