Did Paul Exist? Did The Gospels and Acts Plagiarize Homer? | Dr. Dennis MacDonald

📌Thumbnail by James G. Riley, TELENIKON on YouTube.

In Episode 10 of Season 1 of the History Valley in-person interviews during the SBL conference that took place in November 18-21 of 2023, Professor Emeritus Dennis MacDonald joins me to address a misconception of his work regarding some individuals believing that MacDonald thinks that Paul didn't exist due to misunderstanding of his work on the Gospels and Acts use of the Homeric epics.

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Twitter: @Jacob56723278

[jimgillert]

This is one of the best organized mimesis videos I've seen so far.
When the whole New testament is covered it becomes overwhelming. Seeing what the author of Acts was trying to do also very important.
Finding out that the triumphal entry statement was also precisely from Homer was eye opening.

[jasonnelson]

Great interview, Jacob! Great questions and presentation of questions.

[geraldmeehan]

Thank you Dr MacDonald, thank you Jacob

[quakers]

Jesus said that not a word not even a part of a word of the law and the prophet could be changed and they were to be followed even more rigorously than the scribes. Then Paul comes along and says not only that the law does not have to be followed but a good christian gentile is forbiden from following the law. I understand that Paul was facing a near imposible job, demanding that adult men get their members mutilated without anestetics and a risk of permanet injury or death was going to stop the westward expansion in its tracks. What did Paul know about Jesus? He does not mention the virgin birth, miracles, parables, his travels, the beatitudes, the trial, his diciples. Paul mentions the crucifiction, love god, love your neighbor and he mentions sharing the blood and flesh in the upper room. Paul, like Jesus, also believed that the tribulaion was to be in his lifetime. It never happened. I am reminded of the saying about false prophets . They will be known by their fruit. Failing to correctl predict the return of Jesus would be predicted hudreds of times down through the centuries. Just my opinion.

[Darisiabgal]

👍👍👍👍


Though i think Marcion's gospel was first [before Luke-Acts]. Of the five points of intersection between Josephus and the Author of luke-acts, 2 are in the infancy narrative section. I think this was something written after Marcion recieved his gospel. Like Dennis says, Luke is patterning his narrative after Matthew, and some have argued that Matthews birth Narrative was added later, so this can push the luken additions after the time Marcions discussions of his gospel.
Did Marcion alter his source, probably. Could his source be Q, plausibly, but I think it make just be roughly borrowing Q. I think what the Mark Q Matthew Marcion Luke spectra shows us is that were text and bold men were not afraid to alter these texts for their own theological reasons.

[charlesbrowne]

Dr. Macdonald is always worth watching twice. Jacob is a thoughtful and patient interviewer as always. I recommend a necktie.

[StorytimeJesus]

Opportunities missed. Thomas Brodie researched the most important mimesis used for the gospels - the Greek Septuagint, especially the EEN. Unfortunately Brodie got hung up on his proto- Luke idea. Macdonald reviews a test case for Brodie's theory and concludes that Luke copies Mark. Yet Mark uses mimesis (imitation) of the EEN extensively. Luke simply recognizes Mark's sources and expands on Mark's use of the EEN.
Here is why this is important: using Greek sources could be applied as legend to a core itinerant prophet. Using the Hebrew Bible Jesuses (Jesus Nun, Jesus Jehozadak, Elishua) makes a historical Jesus extremely unlikely. Jesus of Nazareth is simply a particular installment of Jesus mythology.

[heavenswindsong]

James G. Riley is nothing more than a Christian Apologist....

[Robert_L_Peters]

Does anyone agree with Dr. Macdonald or is he all on his own?

[onika]

I don't think the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite sounds that similar:

He was answered by the daughter of Zeus, Aphrodite:
“Anchises, most glorious of mortal humans!
Take heart, and do not be too afraid in your phrenes.
You should have no fear of that I would do any kind of bad thing to you,
195 or that any of the other blessed ones would. For you are philos indeed to the gods.
And you will have a philos son, who will be king among the Trojans.
And following him will be generations after generations for all time to come.
His name will be Aineias [Aeneas], since it was an unspeakable [ainos]18 akhos that took hold of me—grief that I
had fallen into the bed of a mortal man.

[wyspowillow]

So Marcion’s gospel is antiyahwist because it lacks an infancy narrative — so what does that make the Ebionite gospel? 😂 ????

[laurasilverstone]

Yes Paul existed and no, the Gospels were straight from THE HOLY GHOST

[andrewclemons]

Here's the thing no Manuscripts of Homer's Odyssey exist that were written prior to the life of Jesus. Therefore we cannot examine any textual variations. It's about like trying to say Zoroastrianism influenced Christianity. The Avesta wasnt written till 6th century Ad. It's more or less an argument from silence. Speculative at best

[onika]

I agree Luke didn't borrow from Matthew. Maybe Matthew borrowed from Luke.