Why Tolkien Hated the Roman Empire

In this video we explore the beliefs of J. R. R. Tolkien on the subject of the Roman Empire, as well as how Rome influenced Middle Earth and the Lord of the Rings!

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Any feedback is always welcome, I hope you enjoy!!

Below are the songs used in the order they are played:

Josef Suk, Serenade, Op 6 by A Far Cry

W. A. Mozart, Symphony No.38 in D major by A Far Cry

Symphony No. 5 (by Beethoven) by artist stated as "Beethoven" in Youtube Studio but I doubt the man came from the dead to record it

[InkandFantasy]

According to the script I say “itself” 10 times!!

[LLPTV]

Even Tolkien thought about Roman empire at least every week.

[leonemaledetto]

I imagined as much. He loved Celtic myth, and the Romans were a large reason for their downfall. Also the imperialism of Rome must have seemed to ol'JRR like a force for homogeneity in the world, where he so loved the differences of peoples that inhabit it.

[roosterman]

6:00
no one commenting on the fact that one of the greatest authors of all time known for his posh language just said "grr" in a letter to his son unironically

[Tom-sdjb]

"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."

I remember reading somewhere the Faramir was Tolkien's cheeky self insert.

[Procopius]

Tolkien also said that Aragorn becoming king of the united realms was similar to what might have happened if an emperor had inherited the Byzantine Empire and recovered the ruined territories of the western Roman Empire. Edit: Since this comment is getting a lot of views I want to make a correction. Actually what Tolkien said was that the reunited realm was more like the Holy Roman Empire. He did not say it was like the Western Roman and Byzantine Roman empires coming together again, although he did compare Godor to the Byzantine Empire.

[JackovdaBoro]

"As I have said, I am a nationalist; England is good enough for me. I would defend England against the whole European continent. With even greater joy would I defend England against the whole British Empire."
G.K. Chesterton

[plenarchist]

“My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs) … Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so to refer to people. … the most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.”
- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1943 letter to his son from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (1981)

[derfelcadarn]

Tolkien was a traditional Catholic, a Royalist & a counter-revolutionary ; as such, his main inspiration, like all true counter-revolutionaries, was the Christian Middle Ages. An aristocratic social order with a secretly democratic mentality; a strong, patriarchal monarchy with extensive local liberties: a warrior-nobility that still submited to the spiritual authority of the priestly order; a politically fragmented Europe that thought of itself as a spiritually united continent, headed by the Holy Church, and whose warring polities could put aside their differences when necessary (the Crusades, for example) etc. Medieval Christendom was full of these wonderful paradoxes which Tolkien thought to be the basis of true authority and true freedom.

So, of course, it's not surprising that Tolkien hated the Roman Empire, and more generally, the very idea of Empire. Imperialism, true imperialism that is, was completely foreign to the medieval mind. When Tolkien described himself as both an anarchist & a conservative, that is what he meant.

[gurugurumawaru]

Tolkien hated imperialism would be a more accurate title

[TheMoguera]

So it's not that he hates the roman empire, he just doesn't like empires?

[andreasmuller]

To love your country without being blind to its faults is an attitude I wish more people had.

[yseson_]

No hater of nations but a hater of empire, i share these sentiments deeply.

[harbl]

Here's a thing: Karen Fonstad (of _The Atlas of Middle-Earth_ fame) worked out that the distance from Hobbiton to Minas Tirith is about the same as that from Oxford to Constantinople. Make of that what you will.

[ddfelix]

A couple of thoughts.... Tolkien used the story of Horatius Cocles as the basis for Boromir and Faramir's stand at Osgiliath in the Appendices of TRotK. Horatius was one of the heroes of the Republic, not the Empire. Also, the stories of the rustic and independent people of Haleth in Beleriand reflect the old Roman Republican values of industriousness, family, and ethics in defense of their community.

The Dunedain of Arnor lost their kingdom and their reputation, yet never gave up on protecting the Shire. I think Tolkien saw this as the true calling of power and leadership of the powerful and blessed Numenoreans.... and should have been the calling of the Romans as well. The Romans raped and pillaged many lands as the King's faction of the Numenoreans and the Black Numenoreans abused the peoples of Middle-earth.

I believe Tolkien's philosophy as setting an example by being true to the truth. This is shown by the Hobbits', Gandalf's, Aragorn's, Faramir's, and Theoden's courteous behavior towards their social inferiors and guests. People will emulate superior traits through exemplary behavior, not through domination. Examples include the Ithilien Rangers' reverence and remembrance of the Valar before their meal and the highly informal behavior yet extremely polite conversations between Theoden and Merry.

[ckypowerthirst]

People often forget the curse of empire: you either conquer too much territory and empire dies stretched too thin to protect itself biting off more than it can chew or your empire runs out of room to expand into and collapses from within due to class contradictions.

[NorthernHistory]

The whole LOTR is a critique of centralized, military power bent on imperial conquest. Mordor's legions marching to the beat of one drum. He proposes that free, independent people will overthrow such a regime, and indeed they did, in history too.

[oliversmith]

Back in the seventies, I saw a LOTR inspired poster in a Head Shop, in which the orc's armor looked distinctly Roman. Wish I had that old image half a century later to share.

[zarquondam]

No one who's read Augustine's CITY OF GOD would find it "paradoxical" that a Roman Catholic would dislike the Roman Empire.
The irony, however, is that the Roman Catholic church modeled itself in many ways on the structure of the Roman Empire. A hierarchical structure terminating in a supreme ruler-pontiff; the wearing of robes when most European men had switched to the "barbarian" trousers; the appropriation of terms like "diocese" and "basilica, " etc.

[MerkhVision]

This is an excellent and thoughtful video full of nuance, which is much appreciated and desperately needed in these increasingly polarized world!