Upgrade the phono or power amplifier first?

[tonyjedioftheforest]

Of course that’s the way you would go if you don’t care about the music. Garbage in garbage out is still true today as it ever was.
Back in the late 70’s/early 80’s I visited a hifi show and visited Linns room. In there were 3 sets of speakers the Kans, Sara’s and Isobarics. We were excited to audition the Isobarics and sat there in amazement at the sound quality. After the audition the demonstrators laughed when they told us that they had played a trick and we were actually listening to the Kans and it was the Sondek LP12 that made the difference. I immediately became a convert of Ivor’s philosophy and nothing I have listened to 45 years later has changed my mind.

[MazinkaiserV]

I would argue the amplifier, then speakers, then pre-amp, then source. A speaker will never be any better than the amp driving it. Source components are all reasonable these days, so are preamps, but there is still a huge disparity between a well built high current amp and a "good" amplifer.

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[richardelliott]

I used to say the speakers are the voice of the system, so get the nicest possible and let the rest of the system catch up when possible. Then I happened across a shipmate who traveled with an ampeg reel to reel in a steamer trunk, with simple compact one driver speakers . The sound pushed through those generic desktop speakers showed me there was a different way, quality electronics and source material.

I still think building out from the speakers first is more fun.

[sebastianbachert]

In the last to years I first upgraded the phonostage (Schiit Mani) and it was great. Then I reworked the speaker-crossovers - huge improvement. I know, that the combination amp/speakers works fine, when digital sources are played back, but vinyl playback lacks a lot (because I recognize, what the TT lets miss! Now I'm waiting for my new to come. Hope, there'll be the improvement I'm looking for. Then I'll certainly be restarting by the phonostage. In between I keep dreaming of sub... What a freaking hobby. And nobody in my household understands...
Best regards!

[Baygul]

The important thing with power amplifiers is how well they work with the speakers. If you have good synergy then upgrade the phono stage. If not then get a power amp that complements your speakers first.

[NoEggu]

I recommend doing the power amplifier. Why?
If Paul also plays CDs, feeds a DAC via some other transport (streaming or straight from a laptop, etc), his digital playback will also reap the benefits of the better amps.

[cmkilcullen]

This is indeed a very good question. Look, I think if one likes how their other components sound coming through their amp, but the turntable is not quite delivering the sound you want and believe that you can have, then you have your turntable, cartridge and preamp to consider in terms of the weakest link. I have narrowed that same problem down to the cartridge and the preamp. I like clarity with some warmth, but what some people call warmth sounds muddy to me (for example). I found a good - QUIET - turntable, a decent detailed cartridge and now I am on the hunt for a better soundstage. I am talking in the budget realm of things here. I have tried the Phono box - too muddy, the Shcitt Mani- too noisy and so- as mentioned I am on the hunt for something a little better. Feedback welcomed. But - for what it is worth - this has been my approach. I also intend to look at my cables and see how much noise can be remedied there. I am dealing with unbalanced RCA cables. Turntables and vinyl have challenges that I have not experienced or had as much difficulties with as far as components are concerned. As mentioned, I am happy with my other components and integrated amp (Yamaha AS 801) and Klispch speakers.

[andershammer]

I once heard a system with and audio research preamp and and electrocompaniet amp connected to soundesign speakers and I could still hear the quality of the electronics. I bought them :). I used to sell linn lp12 turntables so I learned the source is the most important. But really its all important.

[AaronMal]

I have a Denon AVRX3500H and Klipsch RP600M's. Although the receiver sounds pretty good with the RP-600M's plus a powered subwoofer, I feel like the setup is leaving something on the table as far as the speakers are concerned. I am seriously considering the Stellar S300 power amp to connect to the preouts of my receiver to help bring the Klipsch's even more alive. Once again, I'm really happy with the speakers but just want more "balls" behind them. What do you all think?

[QoraxAudio]

Assuming both the phono preamp and poweramp are at about the same level, the phono preamp is definitely the one to upgrade.
Differences between power amps are much smaller than the phono preamp, because of the RIAA filter inside of the phono preamp.
The phono preamp is not just an amplification but also an equalization because of that RIAA filter, so it has a lot of impact on the character of the sound.

I definitely wouldn't reduce it to a source vs output debate, as both are in the middle of the chain.

[qreecpy]

Loudspeakers first, source last, speakers tend to hold their value better than amps and receivers I think. I remember when klipche la scala were 1500 each and my yamaha avc 50 sold for 1k, now I could pickup that avc used for 200, but la scals go for about 10k a pair. Think of how much I could have saved had I went to the klipch first?

[Oystein]

Agree. Well.. Speaker OR amp first👌 That's the two that have the biggest difference. Getting a better amp can also help cheaper speakers while you save for better ones. So both are acceptable in my book. But for this guy I would get the amp first and then phono amp.

[stonefree]

I 100% agree with Paul's philosophy here.

[scottb]

I have an Audio Technica turntable with built-in preamp which I use. Instead of buying a separate preamp I've put that money towards new Marantz NR1711 that has a phono input.

[entity]

As probably many starter phono prea amps are really low quality, chances are upgrading that first would be a safe bet (epecially with the Stellar Phono pre probably being the surprising hit as the reviewers describing). Of course as Paul said, it depends on your exact components

Wrt to power amp vs pre amp vs phono preamp prioritysing though, I'm not sure it's as clearcut as Paul says (or as the speakers vs sources debate). Changing pres or phono pres can make quite an impact on the overall sound

[joshua]

Have to disagree on this one.
The phono stage is closer to the noise floor than any other component in the system.
By it's very nature, it is amplifying a great deal of noise, and amplifying it more than any other part of the system.
Even a modest amp will get big improvements from a better phono stage.
Up grading the amp will only reveal how bad the phono amp is.

[phrtao]

The cheapest way to upgrade your system if it is a few years old is to: disassemble everything; clean it (especially all the connectors) ; then carefully plug everything back together. I am not a turntable guy but this is especially true for phono amps, cartridges and the like since they deal with such small voltages and currents. Doing this may give you that upgrade on the phono stage that you are looking for. Speaker cable connections (spades, bananas or bare wire) also benefit from a bit of attention as well. Then, of course, do what Paul recommends.

[MrKarlengel]

Better extension and cleaner power first. Add a subwoofer (or a couple) and some power filtering. Then you’ll have the real benchmark to start testing amps and phono stages for your RP-600M.

[J.Christ-man]

G I G O = Garbage In Garbage Out has always been my rule of thumb. Garbage at source will only get amplified by great amp's and speakers, just my two cents.

[xjimmyx]

The other benefit of upgrading the amplifier first is you’ll get more power, assuming your starter amp is around 50-100WPC, which will allow you to drive your speakers with less effort. Potentially less clipping and gives you the ability to take it to 11 on those let loose nights