James White absolutely CORRECTS Pastor Mike Winger

I promised to eventually get around to Pastor Mike Winger’s video on the “Achilles Heel of Calvinism,” as it had been sent to me at least a dozen times by different folks, and so today we got to it, even though we were up against the Kavanaugh hearings. Lots of important ground in the debate covered and clarified.
The verses which Pastor Mike Winger is referring to are Galations 3:4-6

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[anduinsuchan]

i hope to keep track of this conversation until there are a thousand windows within windows

[childoftheking]

Thank God we aren’t going to have to pass a test on this to enter heaven. I know that some extremely smart people need to have these discussions for reason they only know, and many will appreciate the effort they put into expressing their views. I heard the gospel, I responded to the gospel message and now I put my trust in Jesus. I love and appreciate both of these men. We can learn a lot from either of them. Speaking for myself, some things are way over my head and I do not beat myself up over it.

[jaredbrooks]

At least these two men can argue their points without attacking one another. I respect that.

[bryanpratt]

No one can come to Jesus unless the Father who sent Him draws him. John 6

[mredshirt]

When I read the Bible, I see the free gift of salvation and his invitation to receive it and his warning about what happens if I reject it. So I'm going to receive it in humility and tell others to do likewise. I'm going to keep it simple.

[scottsawyer]

I'm a little disappointed in the tone of these "gotcha" video titles. Both Mike Winger and John MacArthur (separate video) are good, solid, Christian men with valuable ministries. Neither one is "false teacher" nor disingenuous. When reviewing the sum-total of a life's work, it would not be difficult to find problem areas...even with the greatest theologians. Anyone who tells me that they can completely explain God's work in our salvation, and can positively disprove every component of a contrary view...is probably a little too sure of themselves. I'm a subscriber and enjoy most of these videos, but some of the "he schooled him" variety leave me unimpressed. Maybe in these troubled times, we should be building up our fellow man, and leave non-salvific subjects for trade journals and SBL conventions. The world needs your talents...to teach and lead....not to over-analyze and quibble.

[mattflynn]

I believe God offers His Grace to all but not all respond to it - Some accept and some reject - People in hell do not go there with God's Grace, they go there having rejected His Grace, because they rejected His Grace

[noobartist]

To be honest, Mike Wingers teaching on this makes a lot more sense. The act of believing is not considered as work. When Abraham believed in the Lord, it was credited to him as righteousness.

Although this is a disagreement within the body, we can all still be brothers and have this discussion. I don't think this issue should divide the church.

[newislandrestore]

I would love to see these two flesh this out in a discussion. Have him on the channel Dr. White!

[objectivereality]

When a human perceives a sunset, they see the sun moving below the horizon. But what is actually happening is the earth moving around the sun. When a believer perceives salvation, they see themselves learning about Christ and coming to Him. But what is actually happening is God reaching down from heaven and gifting the believer with the ability to believe. Perspective and experience colors our ideas about the nature of existence. It can be hard to escape our perspective and acknowledge the larger reality.

[PixlerPerspective]

Love both of these guys! Praying for both of you fighting on the frontlines for the faith. Proud to call you both brothers in Christ

[seanyonthemic]

I like both James and Mike as teachers.

[wbdangelos]

The raising of Lazarus is analogous to salvation. He was dead. He had no way to raise his hand or say a prayer. He had no choice in the matter. And he had no power to resist Jesus's command to come forth, any more than light could have refused to be when God commanded it to be.

Some people hate the idea of monergism because it leaves absolutely no room for pride.

[jannmacdougall]

As Mike Winger would say.."This is totally out of context"...listen to the whole talk...

[Artcore]

I like White but I've heard almost all of Wingers videos relating to Calvinism and Whites response is weak to me, and even as a layperson, after every other sentence White said i was thinking what are you talking about? There's no problem here, you're ignoring this verse and that verse and the overall message and reality of scripture. While White is extremely knowledgeable of scripture he can not see that his Calvinist theology has become a lens through which he reads all of scripture which at least occasionally causes him to misinterpret it. Instead of being able to accept the plain reading, whether greek or English, he must complicate it and finagle definitions etc. to arrive at his view. What is the difference between the saved and the unsaved in the end? Their FAITH! It doesn't take away from God nor is it an excuse to boast. But as the scripture says, "these were the FAITHFUL...". God's influence towards our faith should not be underestimated, but he does not owe anything to anybody, but due to his desire to see men saved he will draw and lead men and predetermine circumstances knowing a given outcome but this is all based on foreknowledge. Watch more of Wingers vids on the topic for a fair understanding of the totality of his views and tyre scriptures they are based on. It's related to the issue of pharaohs hardening, it was not ARBITRARY but based on his history and pre-existing hardening. That's probably the best video to start with to start to see the logical and scriptural problems with full 5 point Calvinism.

[faithmarie]

I'm just saying as far as a viewer goes, Mikes video here is totally taken out of context

[noahgodfrey]

For those saying Mike’s video was taken out of context—this specific clip of James White’s video does start at an awkward point, however having watched Mike Winger enough to be familiar with his position, both men’s beliefs are accurately represented.

[philipd]

Hi, James - thanks for responding. You seem to have missed the point. 🙂 Mike is saying that receiving something is not working - you have that all back to front. The gift is offered, free - but has to be accepted. Accepting does not give you brownie points with God, it is a necessary rescue from a horrific corruption, judgement and death. Holding on to the lifeline is not a work that saves, it is taking advantage of someone working on your behalf. Paul says this quite simply. Grace is not a work, faith is not a work. Believing Abraham was not working, but believing. Your concept of a God who promises, but then behind His breath, says "But not you, you, you, you ... but I am really sorry you are going to suffer forever, but not really ..." is a travesty of the richness of the mercy, compassion and power of a sovereign Redeemer. His sovereignty created free will, He is not a Deistic God, with a clockwork universe, He is a relational God, wanting a relationship with His children - and this is so far superior to the clockwork God, that it gives Him far more glory - working His will despite the freewill of His rebellious creatures, winning their hearts, not forcing them to love Him - the very antithesis of love, after all. May the God of truth and love guide us all, me included, into all truth, and the true knowledge of God, and His Son Jesus Christ, and the depths of His love, which is the definition of eternal Life, and bring us to the unity of the faith.

[susanl]

For anyone watching, go watch Mike’s original video. The clips here don’t include the full context of what he says.

[inquisitive]

as Charles Spurgeon the Prince of Preachers put it, "So you're asking me what is a Calvinist? He is the one who says, "Salvation is of the LORD."