GItHub Is Not An App Store

Today I talk about GitHub and why it's not the best place to get your software if you're a noob.
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#ramble #linux #thelinuxcast

[Wampa]

This feels like that time when a "games journalist" failed the tutorial level of Cuphead. The guy is complaining about having to use the command line to install a *command line program* that is basically a stalker tool. Regardless of how the program is distributed, there is an expectation of willingness to use more advanced tools than regular users are familiar with.

[manofmartin]

2 or 3 videos introducing how to use github on their main page would be great or at least an educational link to some videos and documentation would be swell.
I found it on youtube easily, but if you want a wider audience to access these tools, then easier access to the knowledge is a no brainer.

[TheDrunkenAlcoholic]

Clearly a generation differences between yourself and Brody, I agree that github is not an app store and its up to the repository's author if they choose to release binary's or not using github hubs "release" system, but its still not an app store.

[slizgi]

Now, there are two sides of this.
1. Is the thing you are providing, something to been use by programmers, then giving only the source code is absolutely fine.
2. If your project is something that suppose to be used by regular users, platform does not matter. You should have releases there, or a link to the website or something where you have it, otherwise you're making something wrong.

Of course, I am not defending the way the post on Reddit was made etc.

[gregcampwriter]

It would be pleasant if there would be a page somewhere that explains what to do with all the files that appear on a GitHub page. Probably there is one.

[ZeerakImran]

Honestly, this has nothing to do with GitHub. The person is complaining about not being able to get that file from an app store to begin with. And for it to just install with a click. He's saying why do I have to go out of my way to even install the program when its supposed to do it itself. He's not a developer, so why should he be compiling anything. His comment about the EXE is not about not having an exe present. It applies to Linux, Mac OS as well as Windows but specially Linux. His frustration comes from I saw this cool program and I want to try it but I can't find the download button or install button. So how am I supposed to try it? That's what he is saying. He's basically saying a developer with decency should provide compiled releases and state the platforms supported. Ofc, that's not a thing to do on GitHub necessarily. The person is complaining about the fact that he is on GitHub to begin with essentially. Why can't he go to a simple website (which are free to own and host these days for open projects) to download the program while also learning more about the program without having to do a bunch of work himself to understand it. Note that in the video you said the person is not interested in learning new skills, that's not true. He's not interested in doing this work. He sees it as work because he's interested in using the program and nothing else. Anything in the way is an obstacle. He is not interested in learning THIS skill but he may be open to learning a different skill. A lot of people here will spend hours learning Linux but not a minute learning how to paint. Doesn't meant they aren't interested in learning new skills. Just not that skill. Imagine finding out an artwork is free and it looking really cool, you then going to purchase it and pay for delivery only to find out you need to contact a courier service by phone, request this person's address, arrange a time, pay import duty, calculate the import duty, calculate the time it will take for delivery, calculate the risk involved with this particular carrier and deal, calculate which carrier to use and then to deal with anything which goes wrong (carrier doesn't show up). The complaint isn't that GitHub needs to change, its that the developers can't be bothered to include a simple installer or folder with the files and an exe file. It doesn't even have to be the latest version if maintenance is an issue. But if the developer can write 1000s of words on GitHub, include images, name the program, upload it, improve it for months with newer updates and versions, why can't he/she just include a simple zip file with an exe contained in it alongside all the other files required. Don't even have to bother with an installer. Windows is the majority of personal computer users, so to not do something so simple is confusing. It makes sense coming from the GitHub perspective, but the point is that it shouldn't exclusively be on GitHub anyway. It should be hosted elsewhere (hosting most software under 5gb in size is free too with services like mega...). For anyone interested in the development of the project or to learn more about the software itself (nerds by his definition), they can click on the GitHub project to find the code, more developer related information as well as the latest releases. Yes the developer doesn't owe the user anything if it's free, but the user also doesn't owe the developer anything either (respect/curtsy...). They are nice to haves but I agree with you, they are not a right (tbh I don't know what the word right even means as it makes no sense but that's not relevant). If you're using Linux, you will end up on GitHub eventually (unless you use it as a Chromebook). That's the reality. A lot of times to even get the OS to work in the first place. But that's debatable and an OS thing. Taken literally, of course isn't my argument on the last point but we all already know what I mean. So there is denial rather than debate on the last point since we're not really debating anything.

[ericodionneviglione]

Thanks for posting this. I'm new with GNU/Linux stuff and learning all I can before I switch from Windows to Tumbleweed (either that or Aeon). I'm learning much from these very educational videos. It helps a lot and really helps novices like me really understand why GNU/Linux is the way it is and so different from Windows. :)

[ekim]

This read too much like satire, and I looked up OP's profile and it would seem like they're just a kid who didn't know anything.

[RedSntDK]

I'm turning 41 this year and my brother 40, and we've used computers since the 90s, but for some reason he hadn't used Github until the other day where I showed him where to get the free version of Borderless Gaming. Blew my mind a little, but it was also a bit funny how he called it a site made by nerds for nerds 😂 So he's definitely the kind of guy that could've made that reddit post.

[Axlefublr]

Some things require skill, and do so by nature, like a terminal program. If you can't execute a terminal program to get another terminal program, the latter probably is going to give you as many issues. On the other hand, I super get the anger of the person, cause sometimes something you expect to be simple isn't for you and it gets infuriating.

[gingered]

Projects that have a website should link to the binaries if this is such a big smelly deal, or they can leave it out so the rabble can be someone else's problem. /shrug

Edit: That my response keeps getting removed tells me that I'm right. If it is such a big deal to have a binary highly visible for normal people, use a separate website or an actual app store.

[asdion]

It is NOT Gatekeeping to not cater to people, (not like gatekeeping is bad either, there are unwelcome people that need to be kept out t. the person who wrote that post)
if you are unwilling to put in the bare minimum of effort into getting your software from github then you are the only one to blame and you have absolutely no right to demand someone who develops software for free to cater to someone as lazy as you.

[gimcrack]

Some developers. Don't want to make a easy executable package. It's just another step a developer has to do and don't want to deal with people that are having problems or issues of the bow-tie package. Developers will deal with their code source issues, that's about all. Some of these great source code applications do wind up in a repository. If it comes popular. But that bow-tie package was form by someone else, beside the developer. It's a great skill to build from source. That's what I always do when I visited one of those Git sites. I grab the source and build it. If there is a binary or a .deb file. Some kind of bow-tie execute file. I'll do that. But many don't have that and that's OK with me. To me it's enjoyable to build from source. It's only a few steps, if no dependencies hell isn't in the way. Which I can work that problem as well. My skills are up there.

[afroceltduck]

Totally agree with pretty much everything you said. Also, sometimes the software IS easy to get! Some programs you can find in your distro's repositories already. Or on Flathub, or the AUR. You can' really generalize how Github distributes software because the developers uploading the code do that, and they all do it with different methods. Some easy, some not.

[HimmelsDaemon]

"Releases" aren't even limited to binaries or installers, it includes and is built upon source releases at tagged versions. So executables are even more buried, IF the manager of the repo wants to add a build of that source or other files to the "release."
Hence what you said about expertise, or at least he minimum about of understanding to know discern what you may be getting.

Arguably, those aren't even "new users" of github/git. Not all dev's may want "new users" per say to their software, even if many to most are "lazy" about their distribution. I'd expect that's what "pages" are for, to have a web page for and with distribution. Getting an executable from the releases is a "peek behind the veil" sort to speak, not really meant to be used in that manner, but it is anyways because it works.

Also arguably, this contradicts Brodie's support for the Bottles devs about packaging; about having to deal with problems and complaints beyond themselves.

(Also "gatekeeping" is a misunderstood/misconstrued term; it's applied as elitest tyranny, an abuse there of, not the actual means or reason. "Gatekeeping" is a defense against such, abuse, even is part of "staged learning.")

Something else, making a obvious arbitrary link to executable could end up like AliExpress as the worst example, and a partial example to having access to may Chinese sellers manufactures in an indirect offer manner. Partially similar to if you only marginally deal directly, yet don't know enough about what you're buying or ability to verify, you'll most likely be scammed and taken advantage of. You'd need the expertise to find and validate manufactures with acceptable reputability and validate what you receive. For example, electronics sites like Digikey and Mouser are the ones whom validate the quality of who they resale for industry, profession, and hobbyist. Therefore... if Github wanted to force that, it would be on them to validate and deal with the increase in complaints and troubles caused in bypassing that "filter" which additionally acts as a natural "caution/safety" element.

[ordinaryhuman]

Gatekeepery is underrated. Both the word and the practice.

[mohamadzx]

I appreciative your efforts Mr Matt but the only reason I still use github its because I still contributes to my favorite projects like Firefox Bitwarden And the Proton suite ect

[bsidestriad]

I'm only 42 seconds in and omg, I can't stop laughing at the line: "Why is there code?! Make a .EXE file and give it to me!!" aaahhhh haha 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😆😆🤣..

[aaronsiegfried]

The people that made this script work for free and probably do this as a hobby. What kind of sociopath feels entitled to their labor? It's the equivalent of showing up to someone's private garden and demanding to be made a salad.

And for christ sake, the thing is going to run in the terminal anyway! Why would any dev waste their time making a Windows binary for a simple little Python script that takes TWO (yes, TWO) commands to run? That just seems like a complete waste of time.

[CyperN]

I'm glad you pointed this out Matt!