Foreknowledge ≠ Causation, Change My Mind!

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, briefly talks about the nature of foreknowledge and causation during a recent interview with Braxton Hunter of @BraxtonHunter.

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[drjcw]

Because I know Winter will come later this year, doesn't mean I caused it.

[centsam]

True. Foreknowledge does not equal causation.

[reg]

Absolutely agree putting limits on God will definitely lead to dangerous conclusions!! I like how you point us back to the text ie. Scripture and the character of God —if we see Him as causing all things that every individual ever born does hmm well then why even seek Him in His Word foreknowledge=causation Nope don't see it... i agree foreknowledge does not equal causation.. Thank you both😊

[BloodBoughtMinistries]

It's insulting to think that God can't know the future if He doesn't cause it. God is God he knows everything, it's not difficult to understand. As a child I understood this. God knows if you will be committing some vile sin, you can be sure God doesn't cause you to do it for God hates sin.

[biblicaltheologyexegesisan]

This is not a difficult topic - thank you Dr. Flowers for explaining this to us with your guest. This is a big topic in the latter chapters of the book of Isaiah.

[mitchmonteith]

ABSOLUTELY, knowledge of does not mean causation

[readyplayer]

I have a trick I'm going to show off:

The sun will rise in the east tomorrow.
And the next day.
And the day after that.

Aren't I incredible? How can I possibly know this unless I cause the sun to rise in the east every day? I, of course, couldn't - I am the cause of the sun rising in the east, clearly, and if you disagree with me, it's totally obvious that you just don't understand Calvinism.

[jonhilderbrand]

I appreciate all the work you do, Bro, Flowers! I've seen churches and families torn apart over this and with no benefit to either party. One passage I like to bring up is 1 Samuel 23:7-13, where God "foretells" something that never happens:

Saul was told that David had gone to Keilah, and he said, “God has delivered him into my hands, for David has imprisoned himself by entering a town with gates and bars.” And Saul called up all his forces for battle, to go down to Keilah to besiege David and his men.

When David learned that Saul was plotting against him, he said to Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod.” David said, “LORD, God of Israel, your servant has heard definitely that Saul plans to come to Keilah and destroy the town on account of me. Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me to him? Will Saul come down, as your servant has heard? LORD, God of Israel, tell your servant.”

And the LORD said, “He will.”

Again David asked, “Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me and my men to Saul?”

And the LORD said, “They will.”

So David and his men, about six hundred in number, left Keilah and kept moving from place to place. When Saul was told that David had escaped from Keilah, he did not go there.

Obviously, our decisions can "change" the course of (possible/probable/certain) events. We have very real choices to make that we are responsible for making. This does not in any way contradict the sovereignty of God, nor does it make us "gods" at all. It makes us _responsible_ and I cannot figure out why that is such a problem with Calvinists!

As for materialism, sure, let's hold to a philosophy which offers... _nothing_ ! Just 80+/- years toiling away, only to lose everything in the end. Upper case "N" Nature, in this regard, is, indeed, the great equalizer: _Everybody_ loses.

[renzoventrice]

Just finished reading your book on the Potter’s Promise

[silaschambers]

I find that in this case, the calvinist is limiting God so he can suit his theological system, thus going beyond what Scripture tells us.
What the calvinist is doing here is limiting Gods foreknowledge to His causal decree. This is made clear in the presented question itself "How could God know the future if the future is not set in stone?" They assume that in order for God to know something He must have caused it to come to pass. But if He hasn't, then He can't know.
Is it really proper to limit God in such a way and go beyond what Scripture tells us? Is the *sovereign* God of the universe not sovereign enough to create free willed creatures and still know what they choose beforehand?

[sunshinegirl]

How long before someone says "you just don't understand Calvinism"?

[ewallt]

In terms of foreknowledge equaling causation, the causation is a logical conclusion, not one of cause and effect, as if the foreknowledge itself causes the conclusion. The logical argument is that if it’s possible for one to know with certainty that X will happen (it doesn’t matter who it is that has this knowledge) then X is certain, and if X is certain, it’s settled “The future is set in stone”, so to speak. In point of fact, the knowledge part of the question is irrelevant. What’s salient is whether or not the future is settled. If it’s settled, God, having perfect knowledge, will know it as such, and if it’s unsettled, God will know it as such.

[awesomefacepalm]

If even a parent can accurately predict what their children will do in certain situations with their limited knowledge, then how much more can God know, who's omnipotent, omniscient and timeless?

[jenex]

As an Arminian this is easy for me to understand.

[BEABEREAN]

100% Determinism seems to make God weak. It turns us into Barbie dolls in a dream house...and no one has ever looked at a little girl playing Barbies and said "wow, look at how powerful and awesome she is, making those dolls walk and talk and kiss and drive!".... because there is no real power or authority required to determine the actions of a being with no autonomy or free will. But a God who accomplishes the fullness of his plans despite the free will actions of man (ie Moses killing a man, Moses striking a rock, pharaoh initially resisting God, Joseph's brothers, etc)....that is real power and authority!! That brings glory to God!

[JohnQPublic]

People seem to have great difficulty *distinguishing the difference* between *THE UNKNOWABLE FUTURE* prior to Creation and *THE KNOWABLE* i.e. easily foreseeable/predictable, *FUTURE* that takes place second-by-second within the lifetimes of people that are *NATUALLY UNFOLDING* in the *DYNAMIC PRESENT.*

[sheilasmith]

Exactly. Foreknowledge is NOT causation.
God's foreknowledge would play a role in God choosing certain people to fulfill his plan. This does not mean He determines everything.
Would not be difficult for God to choose a Peter and a Judas for His does not mean He created the evil in them. He used what existed, just as He did with His selection of Moses and Pharoah for His purpose.

[brucegolston]

I can know the train arrives at 8:15am without having caused it.

[ElephantInTheRoom]

Still haven’t found any leading Calvinists address the best arguments from the other side.

[penbenner]

I would love to have Dr flower interview dr Andrew Farley on the calvanis topic