DEBATE | Is Total Depravity Biblical? - Dan Chapa vs. Warren McGrew

Standing For Truth Ministries hosts and moderates a formal debate between Dan Chapa and Warren McGrew on the topic of Total Depravity.

Debate Question - Is Total Depravity Biblical?
Affirmative - Dan Chapa
Negative - Warren McGrew

Moderator - Donny Budinsky



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[IdolKiller]

Thanks for having me and thanks to Dan for such a cordial debate!

[RedefineLiving]

Good job guys. This is how an internal discussion should take place.

[stevefraley]

I really like Dan, so I mean nothing personal, but I find it hard to believe that he sees children from the moment of conception as deserving of eternal punishment in hell. As Christians, we are deeply offended and sickened by, not only the choice to abort, but the procedure of abortion as well. We see the injustice of a child being torn limb from limb. We recognize that the child is innocent and does not deserve this punishment for the sins of his/her parents. How then can we possibly see justice in the never ending punishment of hell for such a child? I am glad that he believes that such children will be saved by God’s grace, but I cannot see how we could consider the alternative as just and proper for a perfect, holy, loving God.

[zzevonplant]

This guy is so far my favorite that's argued in favor of total depravity. He was actually calm, polite, and didn't use any ad homs, any accusations of heresy, etc. Awesome.

[dokidokibibleclub]

I enjoyed this one gents, thank you for your time 🍿 And thanks Donny

[tyronebunyon]

Very respectful on both sides. Love it. Good job brothers.

[Ashwin]

Good discussion overall . Impressed by the humility, patience and charity shown by both parties..

[TatteredBiblePodcast]

41:42 Logical precession is meaningless. The only precession that matters is what happens chronologically. Faith chronologically precedes regeneration.

[swordmasterpublications]

43:20 I would argue that the seed of Satan in Genesis 3 is the hostile Jews (Jn 8v44) who crucified Jesus. It is not all rebellious people of all time and that cannot be sustained from scripture. It has to be assumed and asserted as Dan does here.

[swordmasterpublications]

43:59 I'm sure Warren will take him to task on this in his rebuttal, but this is splitting a hair here. Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Rom 10v17). It DOES produce faith and for those who believe it, it will teach them what they need to know and do to be saved. That is WHY it is the power of YHWH unto salvation to them that believe it. Dan's objection is nonsensical but is necessitated by his systematic.

[brendaleehayter]

Wow, great content, and new to Warren,
Dans responses left me still needing more scriptural clarity
Warrens scripture did not allow for total depravity and actually opposed the thought of total depravity
Well done to both .
✌️

[swordmasterpublications]

43:07 a lot of the things Dan is talking about in relation to the direct operation of the Holy Spirit here, especially as it relates to our time, is assumed. He cannot show that these things are true, that there is some operation of the Holy Spirit separate and apart from the Word acting on men today.

[myroom]

We do not have our own righteousness, those that are truely saved, have JESUS righteousness. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us, we will be made perfect when we receive our immortal and incorruptible bodies, upon JESUS SECOND COMING ………

[swordmasterpublications]

1:05:09 To draw is to exert a pull, a force. To exert a force does not always demand the idea of motion (i.e. to do work). I can exert a force without moving something (e.g. push against a wall). So Dan's definition of draw is wrong.

[sarahd]

Listening to McGrew makes me even more of a Calvinist 🌷👀
Jesus yielded up his own life. No human being does that.

“When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished, ” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.” John‬ ‭19‬:‭30

[TatteredBiblePodcast]

1:06:39 Jesus said if he were lifted up he would draw all men unto him. Yet not all believe. This implies that draw doesn't instantly denote movement.

[swordmasterpublications]

1:06:38 Dan isn't using the entire semantic range of the word draw. He is fixated on the idea that drawing incorporates movement, but that is not necessarily the case. The word draw in both English and ἕλκω in the Greek has a broader semantic range than that which includes exerting a pulling force towards the drawer, but without doing work (causing movement).

[ColonelEmpire]

Total depravity is Biblical... (Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-23) Just the Calvinist definition *of* total depravity is *not* Biblical. Total depravity is *NOT* total inability. Mankind has a freewill.

[JonathanGrandt]

Ok last comment. 1:29:52 The glory and brilliance of Christ is that He DID come as one like us in EVERY WAY and He did what we either could not or we’re not willing to do. The true travesty of our fall is that we came in THE SAME WAY Jesus did and yet we turned AWAY from our perfect Father. That ought to cut deep. But total depravity and original sin spare is this pain and responsibility.

I find it interesting that very early on Dan said something to the effect of “even if Adam had not sinned, we all would have sinned and fallen anyway.”

Sure! So why not then? Why not just let that be the case? It’s all the scriptures teach anyway! We all would have and we all have. But we CAME IN spotless and pure.

My wife just had a baby and he’s so pure and perfect I could weep. I pray for him every day and I pray that we are able by the grace of God to train him up in the way that he should go.

[myroom]

YIPPIE, we can see all parties involved, this is going to be great. ❤️❤️❤️💕💕💕