Why you should want to suffer | Paul Bloom

This interview is an episode from The Well, our new publication about ideas that inspire a life well-lived, created with the John Templeton Foundation.

A life without suffering is a life without meaning.

But this is a paradox. We spend most of our life trying to avoid things like pain, fear, and grief — yet, sometimes, we seek them out. We watch sad movies. We push our bodies to the limit with extreme exercise. Why?

There are two reasons: (1) There is a difference between chosen and unchosen suffering. (2) The good things in life only make sense if there are also bad things. Without the bad, the good loses meaning.

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About Paul Bloom:
Paul Bloom is the Brooks and Suzanne Ragen Professor of Psychology at Yale University. An internationally recognized expert on the psychology of child development, social reasoning, and morality, he has won numerous awards for his research, writing, and teaching. Bloom’s previous books include Just Babies: The Origins of Good and Evil and How Pleasure Works: The New Science of Why We Like What We Like, and he has written for Science, Nature, The New York Times, and The New Yorker.

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Read more from The Well:
I put a camera on a monkey. Here’s how it shook my understanding of humanity
Atheism is not as rare or as rational as you think
System 1 vs. System 2 thinking: Why it isn’t strategic to always be rational

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About The Well
Do we inhabit a multiverse? Do we have free will? What is love? Is evolution directional? There are no simple answers to life’s biggest questions, and that’s why they’re the questions occupying the world’s brightest minds.

So what do they think?

How is the power of science advancing understanding? How are philosophers and theologians tackling these fascinating questions?

Let’s dive into The Well.

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[bigthink]

Do you think suffering gives people meaning?

[iqbalsanbal]

"to live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in that suffering" - Frederick Nietzsche

[emmanuelweinman]

There is a Big difference between Pain and Suffering. Life is inevitably painful, but we do not need to suffer that pain. I’ve had 3 years of chronic pain so far, and my reaction to that pain matters more than the pain itself. We can either suffer our pain or accept our pain. The more I surrender to my pain and others’ pain, the more I appreciate Life. When I choose to suffer Pain, I hate life. I will always choose Love. Life is so beautiful it Hurts! Feel the Hertz!

[Cassim]

There's a big difference between looking for meaning in challenges vs real misery

[luigidisanpietro]

My Dad is so fulfilled, he finished School after:

1.) Hacking his way through the Jungle,
2.) Climbing on top of a 2000 meter hill,
3.) Fording a river fighting off crocs,
4.) Taking the Bus and,
5.) Finally reaching the classroom.

[itskeagan]

I experienced trauma as a young boy and it destroyed my happy, outgoing outlook on life until 32. I’m 34 now, recovered from my addiction and grateful that I finally “unfroze”.

Those traumas kept me stuck in time, frozen and clinging to that pain and I continually hurt myself-to escape. It was a vicious cycle I slipped into and had no clue until I was so far gone it nearly took my life many times over.

A Sarge who ran the drug rehabilitation program I was sentenced to in 2019 told me “you have to get comfortable with the uncomfortable” and it stuck. It’s actually part of my life’s transformation at this point, all the way down to taking cold showers to increase my tolerance to discomfort!

If you had brain-changing trauma happen and are stuck in a pattern of extremes, I’d encourage you to discover where it’s coming from. Practice DBT, get to know yourself and what motivates you. You’re certainly not alone and it absolutely can be done.

[whale]

"Pain and suffering are inevitable for persons of broad awareness and depth of heart. The truly great are, in my view, always bound to feel a great sense of sadness during their time upon earth" - Fyodor Dostoyevsky

[Paul-ebcl]

I agree with this, all growth happens either in adversity, or when reflecting on past adversity. It doesn't even have to be life changing monumental adversity, it can be a simple as being late for an appointment because you're stuck in traffic, or having to cancel a social engagement because you're ill. Each one of these instances is a chance to improve yourself, to stop yourself from freaking out, or blaming anything and everyone else, and to stop, remind yourself you are not going to die, and ask how do I improve this situation, and how will that in turn improve me. It's not easy, and it takes years of practice and effort, but at least you're trying to make yourself better, stronger and more resilient.

[beverlyHillsAgent]

Suffering creates perseverance. Perseverance creates characters. Characters creates hope.

[abewewew]

I was contemplating the Buddha’s teachings one day and I came to the realisation “the more one has experienced suffering, the more mature they are”. The Buddha realised that every thing in this world leads to suffering and therefore he attained the ultimate maturity of the mind.

[djpurpledays]

Those jobs are meaningful because they’re about helping people. If suffering were the key to meaning, the child laborers of cobalt in our phones would be the most fulfilled people, or would be considered to have the best start in life, and we all know that’s wrong.
It’s about running the race, proving you’re worthy of your goals, and transforming your life in the process.

[jonathandemacedo]

Fascinating. As someone who hates pain, I’ve always found this notion to be appealing but only at arms length.

I do struggle with his assertion that “for something to be meaningful, it must involve suffering” as the delight of a serene beach with plenty of wine and a lovely sunset isn’t only meaningful to me because it was a struggle to get there.

Not saying I’m right, just aching for a bit more nuance.

[hoptanglishalive]

We seek out novelty. If we're bored with happiness or success, our response to seemingly pursue suffering may actually be an escape from the suffering of boredom. It's variety that holds meaning.

[StevenScienceNTech]

I do not agree to his claim : "we need pain and suffering to have rich and happy lives"

[Alritealritealrite]

Not that long ago I was wishing for things to be how they were before I felt like this. Being just okay feels like heaven when you're not. Then again being just okay is probably pretty good

[DEE-qumc]

The good things in life, only make sense relative to the bad things. How very true!

[nataliamartir]

Me, a chronic pain patient... "Well, fuck me, then." Everyone that knows me, Knows if this stopped, for me, I'd live my life with all the gusto I could. Shit. I STILL try. But being stuck in a wildly dreaming pain cage seems to be a particularly cruel kind of suffering. I would like to believe I have a better life ahead of me. I'm a disabled, 33 yr old.

[randomone]

It's not pain, or pure suffering, but the possibility of not succeeding that brings meaning to things we find meaningful and worth doing. No risk, no reward. No pain, no gain.

[batuhand]

If you look at it from a physiological perspective, pathway is quite clear.

Exercise, stress or maybe hurting yourself in a case of masochism stimulates cortisol release and some of that excess cortisol is turned into endorphin, a hormone which is responsible for some of the good feelings we experience. We all partly know about the sweet exhaustion after a workout, this is how it simply works.

[daleycatch]

We can’t avoid suffering, but we can choose our suffering. For example, we will inevitably age and our body will deteriorate. But we can choose to suffer by working out, to make the unchosen suffering (aging) more bearable.