AAA Studios Sued for Addictive Games | Cold Take

From the team behind The Escapist, we're excited to introduce you to our new employee-owned and fully independent outlet, Second Wind.

Sources

Official Filed Complaint

Patent Search

“Children Spend the Most”

UK’s 11 Industry Principles

Hearthstone’s Officially Published Card Pack Drop Rates

How does Zynga Hunt for Whales?

Kabam Inc.

“The Beneficial or Harmful Effects of Computer Game Stress on Cognitive Functions of Players”

Epic Games Settlement

Obesity Rates

Chapters

0:00 - 2:02 Intro
2:02 - 2:57 Lawsuits 101
2:57 - 4:36 Plaintiff
4:36 - 5:32 Defendants
5:32 - 8:57 “The Rise of Video Games”
8:57 - 10:18 Video Games vs Casinos
10:18 - 16:37 “Predatory Monetization”
16:37 - 21:56 Patents
22:03 - 23:10 Whales
23:10 - 26:19 Effects of Video Games
26:19 - 39:14 Opinion Time

[SteamedToast]

It's been disheartening to have grown up fighting against the argument that games were harmful to children only for the industry to win and immediately use all their analysis to figure out how close they could get to the line before crossing it.

[fakade]

When multiple studios have hired former child psychologists to mange their monetization for games the parent has a pretty good point.

[jdhilario]

Note that whales aren’t necessarily richer than other players. Many of them are just regular people with gambling addictions, and calling them whales can turn them faceless.

[goat]

I'm 54 years old. I can tell you, having played video games throughout their long history, I noticed that starting around 2011, things began to change and it felt sinister to me. Video game developers had begun to hire psychologists to maximize dopamine releases in the brain, then to regulate it. By that I mean the developers of these games want players to stick around, play longer, and stay loyal to THEIR game. Of course, this is obvious. To accomplish this, they literally tried as hard as they could to make the game addictive. This is old news. My own addiction was to Destiny and Destiny 2. I'm glad they may now have to answer for the damage they did to people in the name of profits.

[CoiledasDevilry]

Man, the yin/yang vibes of Frost and Yahtzee's respective styles are so good to have in the same independent channel. Every new Frost video is a highlight

[geargraphic]

Me expecting an 8 minute Cold Take, only to get a 40 MINUTE LONG ONE. Good lord Frost, keep it up but get some rest.

[petrab.]

There’s a class action lawsuit in Quebec (and another Canadian-wide, based in BC) against Epic alleging most of the same things, but again with all of the same pitfalls: they try to say Fortnite is underhandedly addictive and targets children (which it is, and it does) but go out of their way to blame their children’s excessive spending and hours spent on games on the gaming industry at large, thus muddling the argument. They try to cast too wide a net to rid themselves of all blame, and meanwhile these companies are free to do as they please.

And, I’m sorry—from someone who has ADHD: games do not cause ADHD. They may exacerbate its symptoms, but you are the only one harming your child by excessively pathologising an incredibly common learning disorder. Learn about your own kid before you run your mouth in court, goddamn.

[ryanhenderson]

I think the real conflict here is Video Game Companies preying on the Uninformed Parents of the children that are playing video games. As a teacher, I have seen parents that are super informed and others who know as much or less than their student. The only way to protect your kids is to be informed and intelligent yourself. Not saying that companies shouldn't be held accountable, THEY SHOULD BE. But the super rich companies will do what they want and there is very little we can do about it, so the best we can do is be at our best.

[DodgeThisBam]

Full disclosure: I had not watched a single episode of Cold Take until the creation of second wind.
Your first episode was a brilliant way to explain WHY and HOW Second Wind came to be. I particularly liked your “Going independent is just a roundabout way of firing your boss.” Such a cathartic line in these times.
But this? This was BRILLIANT. Thank you for not only going over the situation from multiple angles but also for going over your own views and why you feel that way. It’s awfully refreshing in a media landscape covered in “X thing is bad so hate it as hard as possible.”
I look forward to your next work. Thank you.

[kevjp]

These companies have clearly been manipulative and predatory but I don't see how one family can be successful in trying to sue 5 massive companies at the same time. Law makers are too slow, unaware and easily distracted by a big bag of money.

[ashedarke]

Now this is a work of passion. When your normal videos are 10 mins long on average, making something 4 times the length isn't because you'll think you'll get 4 times the money.

Respect for Frost has gone up.

[Azec]

Frost wasn't kidding about this being a monster of a Cold Take

[downix]

As a game developer, in the monetization planning stage we threw about the term whale a lot for our latest title; not for how to capture them, but how to avoid becoming addicted to them. Too many titles our team has been involved with have bent over backwards to satisfy these handful of players, and they do that because they are hooked on the boatloads of cash. It is, in my opinion, to the detriment of these titles how addicted to whale oil (what we termed the money from whales) they became.

[lukerabon]

These companies do engage in harmful practices that exploit vulnerable people for money. That said, that's not how ADHD and Dyslexia work

[Agilaz]

This seems like a case of 'worthy cause, presented poorly and doomed to fail because of it', and Frost does point out a lot of the issues with the case.

Thanks for the long episode, and this might just be me, but I'd gladly take the occasional extra long cold take even if you need an extra week to make it.

Staying tuned o7

[invisableumbrella]

Honestly, I’m disappointed. At the beginning, it was an exciting prospect that someone was fully targeting predatory monetization schemes directly, since The micro transaction ecosystem HAS, in my opinion, become something much worse than it should have ever been allowed to be. However, this definitely won’t be the lawsuit to make waves. As soon as you said they were putting their son’s dyslexia on the docket? Over. Done. No way is this ever getting past discovery.

I think you’ve nailed it with the parents not being as transparent or informed as they need to be for this case to hold water. I suppose I didn’t consider that a lot of people don’t really have the vocab and necessary knowledge to describe the problems they’re seeing with the games industry, one of those “experts over estimating common knowledge” situations, even if I wouldn’t call myself an industry expert.

I do feel bad for the kid, sounds like irresponsible parents and maybe the wrong medication. I feel bad for the parents too, since teenagers who just… don’t listen to anything you say do make you feel like you’re out of options other than just giving them what they want. Sticky situation, but unfortunately not the slam dunk evidence against major games companies they’re hoping for.

I’m a little more cynical than you, I think, about in game purchases. I never had a problem with cosmetics or whatever, and gacha games are kinda fun (will I get the pretty girl jpeg this time?? can be a fun experience despite knowing it’s frivolous). Paid advantages tho? No. I hate them, and really wish that they would sink into the sea. It’s one thing in competitive trading card games, that’s just kind of how the genre was built, but in shooters, puzzle games, or anything else… even if it’s all transparent, it sucks. What is the point? Real money skews player priorities, and pay-to-win encourages bad game design. Not bad system design, they are very effective systems, but games as a pastime people do to feel accomplished or have fun has really diminished. Why bother producing a fully finished, polished, enjoyable game? The profit incentive is to release a playable enough product and have people pay to bypass the jank.

Anyway, sorry for the long comment. TLDR; great video. This lawsuit won’t be the one to make gaming giants pay attention, but hopefully it encourages other people to try.

[titan_uranus_]

Frost is a cook; he should know that it takes 40 minutes to bring a Cold Take to a simmer

[jellorelic]

As a parent who's fighting with some similar issues now (not the money and health thankfully, but internet/online addiction paired with some autism spectrum issues causing problems with schooling), unfortunately it's not as easy anymore as "take away the router". Most of the kids school stuff is online, and I work from home frequently. So fully cutting it off isn't an option. I would have to engineer a white-listed subnet and attach his computer to it that's secure enough that he can't bypass it. In a house here he has access to the physical devices in question and knows as much, if not more, about internet security than I do. And even if I somehow did that he could tether to his phone at that point (no, you can't turn off data access on a per-device/line basis with most providers today) so I would also have to restrict phone access to a non-smartphone. Which we also really can't do effectively due to the 2factor requirements for some of his school sites.

It's a terrible mess to try and disentangle people from technology these days even if they WANT to, so much of our lives requires it now.

[CBSmith-jsyl]

The line about the mom being physically afraid of their 13 yr old kid reminds me of a former partner of mine who is a therapist for kids.

She also had a 13 yr old gaming addict. 13 but 6ft weighing 300lbs who had numerous times physically assaulted his mom (whom was smaller than him by that point) for taking away the games.
As a parent with a child like that. What do you do? Call the cops? On your own kid? It sounds easy but that is a line to cross for some (I hope many) parents

[LilyCodes]

ADHD exists from birth - or at least very early childhood - and without intervention can lead to just about every other "damage" listed in the lawsuit. As someone who wasn't diagnosed until their early 30s, and went through a lot of those issues until getting the right medication and counseling, this just makes me feel so sad for the kid. I hope they get the help they need.