Is The Seventh Day Adventist Church a Cult? Live discussion

This video will be a live discussion between myself and a Seventh Day Adventist by the name of Fitzroy from Midnight Cry Media. We will be having a polite and civil conversation addressing the question "Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church a Cult"? I do believe that the SDA Church is a cult that teaches a works based gospel. However, Fitzroy and I are becoming friends and I think this will be charitable conversation.

[ReboneMora-weoo]

Brother Fitz, I think you said everything right… its the format of the conversation that doesnt favor your character, personality and style of getting your points across. You have been presented with a problem in the form of a question, the same question over and over again simply because once you set out to make your point, you were not ready for interjection, which is how a [conversation] will always go, to improve this, Id say be aware of making your entire point in a few sentences than long form as you have been used to on your channel.

The Host, was asking simply, “make me see that EGW is not saying what I think She is saying” and you focused mostly on what EGW is saying, says and believes and totally gave little to no interest on the hosts CONCERNS. 
You also made a fatal mistake also by assuming that he was a careless reader who took statements out of context, and clearly from his train of thought, it was not so.

The Host has the statements he is grappling with highlighted, and your job was to reconcile the ones he agrees with, with the one he sees to be erroneous, not a simply task, but the actual assignment, and had most of your efforts been focused there, youd go over fewer Bible verses, with more accuracy.

This conversation felt uncomfortable on your behalf, I also think, being the guest, you took the defense and felt the need to defend than to make direct statements as an equal participant and interlocutor.

I wanted to enjoy this, but it was honestly uncomfortable given that brother Fitz knows exactly what he believes, but was having trouble getting across while having a conversation with someone who not only claims to not agree but was pressing where it hurts. If you felt, troubled, pressured, as if the name of the church was on your back, I am sorry, it was totally you and your beliefs and I hope other Adventists can learn this.

[beitel]

I think this was the most respectful, helpful, mature discussion I’ve ever heard. I found it helpful hearing both points of view. I wish more discussions were like this instead of people pointing fingers and saying, “you’re wrong! I’m right.” After all I believe we have the same goal; To know Jesus and make Him known. May we all continue to prayerfully study the word and daily surrender our hearts to Him.

[mijornadaadventista]

Brother Fitzroy did a great explanation and provided several bible text, its sad to see people who can't analyse the bible in its whole context. I haven't heard before about brother Fitzroy, im going to check his channel, thanks to this viideo

[CheyenneRosero]

I am not sure if this was a fruitful conversation in bringing people to a better understanding of SDA beliefs. From what I understand the host had some issues with specific Ellen White quotes that they were using as a basis for the conversation, but I think we would have benefitted from just discussing doctrinal differences like the state of the dead, salvation, the Sabbath, etc. solely based on Bible verses rather than trying to put EGW in context AND also defend the doctrinal differences at the same time. Also, it was difficult for the guest to get their point across the finish line without interruption from the host. I understand differences wanted to be addressed but a question/ concern was brought up, let it be addressed by the guest and then either continue on with that concern or divert back to the secondary issue that was identified in the process. That really took the conversation all over the place.

[opiekins]

Yes, faith and works are intrinsically tied, by we are saved by faith alone. Works come immediately after, as evidence of a genuine faith.

[Timothy.]

We are saved by faith alone but the faith that saves is not alone. Without works our faith is a dead faith (James 2:26).

[Signs_of_God_Ministry]

Enjoyed the discussion. (Would have been nicer if you hadn't interrupted the guest so often.) I have been a Christian all my life...raised in the Pentecostal faith since childhood. Yesterday (9-21-2024), at the age of 61, I was baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church. I am happy and at peace with that decision. I have decided to follow Jesus. No turning back. 😇

[HOMELESSAREPEOPLE]

Who is the Fitz guy, he knows the scriptures. I like how he studies line upon line. he makes sense … according to scripture

[kfvjwev]

I am not SDA but the Bible is very clear that we should worship God on the Sabbath and make it Holy.

[ambiguity]

"He that says I know him and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him ".1 John 2 v 4- 6

[jacquesvandermerwe]

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[GregSereda]

Adventists believe that salvation is by grace through faith which produces good works. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take 40 minutes to figure out. I'm 40 minutes into this video and the interviewer can't seem to get past that. It's like he's bent on trying to prove Adventists teach works-based salvation. Dude, give it up and move on.

[JaneNtene]

Thank you gentlemen for a good debate.What I have learned is that the SDA Church is not a cult since all its doctrines are based on the Bible.

[NacidoDelSol]

I actually really enjoyed this. I think that anyone watching should carefully and prayerfully study the Bible for themselves, not taking the opinions of anyone as gospel. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you to Truth, and you will find it

[peterpetrp]

Bro Fitzroy. Kaleb seems like he's coming from a different foundation, once save always save, or some element of it. Maybe you need to address that first.

[KITO]

We Adventists, no matter how much we may try to explain, will always be deemed a cult by evangelicals and others. That's the price to be paid for studying the Bible and following the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath, as well as other sound biblical doctrine such as the investigative judgment. I've learned to live with that.

[juligraham]

No, Seventh-day Adventists are absolutely not a cult. Unless following the Bible makes one a cult.

[GD-qnxo]

Thanks for the great discussion, lots of credit to both of you for the format and the disposition and willingness to give each other space to discuss. I am a 7th-Day Adventist, my dad was a pastor and like Fitz, my youth was spent apart from the faith. Couple of points I would make about what I heard and my own beliefs:
1. EGW is NOT the Spirit of Prophecy but rather she received and accepted it (the Holy Spirit)
2. I accept that she was was inspired but (1) she is not infallible, and (2) She said in multiple places (3) her writings should never be used to discuss biblical doctrine but rather the Bible should be used. She also said the Bible is the big light, and her writings are the little light pointing to it. - There we DO NOT follow a human but the Bible for our beliefs.
3. There is a difference of understanding of what it means to be justified by works, or having the faith to believe that Jesus can sanctify us (keep us from willfully sinning), this will have to be discussed more in the future but, either way, this point of understanding the Bible does not qualify the SDA Church as being a cult; do do not depend on EGW for this doctrine.

[JonathanGardnerPotsMinistries]

Ok so after watching this discussion and reading the main quote that ithinkbiblically posted, I’ve read the entire meeting manuscript and want to share how this has been easily misunderstood.

The quote is in the video but Ellen is clearly not saying that we have to do works in order to be reconciled in the sense of our works saves us, suggested by the interviewer. Notice the quote a few paragraphs back. She talks of Adam and Eve who disrupted the relationship with God because of their sin and then goes on to talk about Christ.

“Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are, that He might know how to succor those who should be tempted. His life is our example. He shows by His willing obedience that man may keep the law of God and that transgression of the law, not obedience to it, brings him into bondage….”

Jesus did all of this why?

“He pleads and reasons with the sinner, and in one sense—that of having Himself borne the weakness of humanity—He puts Himself on a level with him. “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” – {4T 294.1}

So it’s not only to save us from sin but to RESTORE the relationship between God and man by wanting us to come and reason with him based on what he has done for us due to our SIN.
Now notice the quote in the video.

“Man, who has DEFACED the image of God in his soul by a corrupt life, CANNOT, by mere HUMAN EFFORT, effect a radical change in himself…

So what must he do?

“He must accept the PROVISIONS of the gospel;…”

What does that look like? Here’s the quote

“he must be reconciled to God through obedience to His law and faith in Jesus Christ. His life from thenceforth must be governed by a new principle. Through repentance, faith, and good works he may perfect a righteous character, and claim, through the merits of Christ, the privileges of the sons of God”

So let’s understand it because it clearly shown in context. Jesus came to save us not from sin alone but from the broken relationship that Adam and Eve caused. The gospel is the remedy to this damage. Jesus died to save us amen! Did we deserve it? No! This is called grace! This is called justification!

Now what’s next? Do we continue in our own ways? Or are we (as the quote says) “governed by a new principle.” So what’s the reconciliation about? Easy.

The provision of the gospel produces fruit which is clearly what she shows. The gospel saves us from sin and gives us a new life! Obeying God’s law is a provision of the gospel, faith in Jesus keeps this process going which is also a provision of the gospel. Remember she clearly says man has defaced the image of God.

So we are reconciled by restoring that relationship (which is what reconciliation means…restoring a relationship). This is why Jesus says if you love me (relationship language) keep my commandments. Also why call me Lord and do NOT the things which I say.

Notice this verse too.

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to RECONCILE all things UNTO HIMSELF; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he RECONCILED.
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Then it says this:

Col 1:23 *IF* ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So notice that Jesus reconciled us but it didn’t just end there. We were also alienated by wicked works but have also been reconciled….IF…..we continue in the relationship or reconciliation conditions.

The Bible says we are changed into the same image from glory to glory, meaning this is a process of sanctification.

So to conclude.

The fact Ellen said that we must take on the GOSPEL PROVISIONS means she’s not saying we must do to be saved or reconciled. She’s talking about the provisions given to us that we are reconciled by and it’s seen through obedience and faith of Jesus. So we are not doing our works to save ourselves…we simply can’t! We defaced the image of God!

Reconciliation can only happen through the requirements of obedience to his law and faith in Jesus. THEREFORE God gives us these provisions in the gospel to accomplish the restoration.
It’s like the new covenant. We can’t be saved with a corrupt life. Therefore God offers the provisions by writing it on our hearts. We can’t win the daily battles against Satan. Therefore God gives the provisions….the armour of God.

I pray this makes total sense.

[maxprieto]

Fitz God bless you and protect you.. keep doing what you are doing..