Can Morality Exist Without The Bible? | DEBATE

Ben Shapiro and Sam Harris Debate the topic of Morality. They dig into the role that Christianity and The Bible have played in bringing about the modern Western world (where human rights are at an all-time high).

[vanheath]

Sam Harris says the Christian reads the Bible and then reinterprets it with our modern understanding to try and make it work, as an argument against the Bible. Then immediately starts reinterpreting history based on his modern understandings. This guy has no logical consistency, how has he risen to prominence?

[stefanlouw]

Sam's arguments resonated with me when I was in my early 20ies, I'm not in my early 20ies anymore. I also use to be into Dragonball Z. I'm not anymore. I thank God for allowing me to mature.

[Shadow]

Without having watched a second of this debate, this is how I answer the question in the title.

Morality can exist without the Bible, but it cannot be justified without knowledge of God's will and revelation as God is the only consistent justification for morality, all others fall short. The most consise way of recieving God's revelation is through his revealed word.

[finnwillows]

Good point on Sam Harris wanting it both ways -- all the bad things in Christian Europe were because of Christianity but all the good things because of Europe.

[conot]

I love that Sam explains "you can acquit everything good to religion that happened during the dark ages because everyone was religious" while simultaneously trying to blame religion for everything bad that happened at that same time. I feel this explanation of history shines a bright light on Sam's biases.

[Douglas-ntjd]

Charles The Great spent unbelievable amounts of his kingdoms money translating books and teaching his society to read. The church had money, that's why they did it

[hellooutsiders]

Ben needs to talk about Christianity more, one day it'll click.

[victortorres]

The fact that Harris opinion on anything is still held with respect if baffling to me

[qfranklin]

Sam Harris never read proverbs, to say there's no wisdom in the Bible ludicrous.

[ianhemingway]

one thing i find frustrating about all these conversations is that there are two key things missed. one: religion is two faceted, dogma and spirituality. i find a lot of time is spent railing against dogma while not seeing it for what it is; merely a framework to efficiently connect to the spiritual aspect. the other thing that annoys me is that science only describes reality. it's the "how", not the "why". you cannot deduce a why from a how. any debate of science v. religion is not even speaking the same language. it's similar to drama and mathematics. math describes the physical reality of being while drama describes what it to 'to be'.

[LandonMetochoi]

Brother, I’m not trying to be rude, but this video comes off as extremely ignorant. Sam Harris doesn’t present an answer to the question of where morality comes from? He is never asked that question in the video! He is asked to evaluate Bens argument. YOU provided the title of the video, not him, and Harris has written an ENTIRE BOOK, “The Moral Landscape, ” on this exact topic. The brief answer? Morality is derived by humanity through an assessment of well-being vs. suffering. No gods required.

Furthermore, you said that Harris was wrong about slavery being endorsed in the OT Bible, but never backed that up. Please explain the divine morality of Exodus 21: 20-21.

20 “And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.”

[nickflight]

Love your picks of videos on this channel and love your commentary as well.

[markh]

Slavery was absolutely endorsed in the bible.
"then you have Sam Harris who is taking of the posture of standing back and not actually offering any affirmative vision for anything and basically taking pot shots at different points throughout history?"
What on earth are you talking about? Harris pointed out that bible endorses slavery. He is right. Shapiro have a vague, evasive answer to this and you've started some nonsensical rant about Harris as a response. 🤦‍♂

[uranumbnuts]

Hey DDOW, sorry for the long winded post. Stay blessed.

3:27 what Ben is doing is tailoring his conversation to his listener. We do this in sales. We tailor our talking points based on who we are talking to to appeal to them on a level they will understand. He isn't reducing God and his influence, he is simply extending an olive branch that Sam can recognize, in a language he is familiar with. As he said prior, "an appeal to authority, when that person doesn't believe in that authority, does nothing to further the conversation."

As far as slavery is concerned, the bible didn't condone it but it also didn't condemn it. It gave rules on how to treat your slaves, if you had them or cane across them. For the most part, slavery in the bible was indentured servitude. People that gave themselves over to pay off debts or to have work to get out of poverty. Hence the strict rules on how you should treat slaves.

Exodus 21: 1-11 "“If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything.

3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him.

4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, ’

6 then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,  he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.

9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter.

10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.

11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money."

Ephesians 6:9 "And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."

Deuteronomy 23:15-16 say's "If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master. Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them."

What Sam and many others get wrong or simply refuse to understand is that the bible was written in the perspective of the time it was in. Applying todays morality to the actions of the past does nothing for anyone, and applying todays morality to the moral authority is also pointless.

[alisterrebelo]

Sam underplays the value of a society that believes in the triune God. For those people who are interested in psychology, this is one of the strongest utilitarian arguments for the logical need for God. If we ran the experiment again with anything less than the historical level of belief, we would have worse outcomes. We only have to look at the moral decay right now with the level of atheism to intuit that the moral decay and level of atheism are directly proportional.

Once you understand the logical need for God to exist, at least from a society's point of view, it is merely a matter of time and sincerely asking, before God will reveal himself to you in a personal way or religious experience.

[awesomemccoolname]

Not only is sam wrong, he is obnoxious.

[charlesmorris]

Thank you. May God continue to bless you and your loved ones...

[jessemayer]

Why do people who believe in the Bible always get offended when facts that might challenge it are shared, what do you care ? Your belief isn't suppose to depend on facts, because if that were the case you would not have much to go with anyways...

[RussellALeenders]

The Bible is Divine Intervention Instructions for human's to understand their purpose know their Creator, Maker and Designer and when obedient to their Heavenly Father and by this LOVE to GOD is the catalyst that will bond all things in Heaven and on Earth Living in TRUE UNITY Forever. 2Tim.3:15, 16

[FaithLikeAMustardSeed]

It's an undertaking and starts off slow, but a reading of Augustine's "City of God" is probably secondary in worthwhileness to the Bible.

None of these topics are new.