High vs Low POE HUBS Worth It? i9 Hydra vs DT Swiss 240EXP/ 350

Are High engagement HUBS like Industry Nine Hydra are getting all the praise these days. But is 690 POE of i9 hub better than a low engagement, 36 #POE #DT Swiss 240 or 350 #hub? Pedal kickback, engagement, all here!

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⌚Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:27 vs DT Swiss 240 EXP 36 POE
00:44 DT 36 POE Explained
01:08 Pedal Kickback
01:58 Low POE good for?
02:18 High POE for Technical Climbing
04:01 Side-By-Side, DT Upgrade
04:35 High vs Low Hub Pitch
04:57 Other criteria, conclusions

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[MortenProm]

Greate video. I'm into low POE. I've gone all the way with Onyx. 0 degree engagement and completely silent :)

[db_cooper]

That loud POE sound freaked out security guard at my work one evening when I was rolling my bike down the hallway. He was convinced I was walking up to his outpost firing off a taser. I want to try the onyx hub too for the silent trail experience but $$$$.

[andymtb]

I upgraded my Trek Fuel EX from 54T to 108T and absolutely love it. Never looked back. It sounds great, but I've also noticed how much better it feels. There's none of that "lag" between cranks, and it makes for smoother engagement. For $27, it was 100% worth it for me. Not sure about 690 POE, but hey I like loud and quick hubs.

[RiddleKingOnline]

I'm glad you touched on this. Rear suspension only works as designed when pedal kickback (i.e rider weight against the kickback) and braking are not inhibiting it. As a dual suspension guy, less points of engagement is absolutely key to getting better suspension, as is knowing when to get off the brakes and let your suspension do its job. I recommend everyone tries a) taking the chain off for a run and experience zero kickback, and b) jump up and down on your bike with the brakes on then again with them off to see how much it jams up your travel.

[Phlizz]

It’s important to understand that there is unlikely any pedal kickback while you’re riding, the backwheel is rotating forward allowing the cassette to rotate as well without resistance to counteract the the impulse on the cranks by chain growth. Only on harsh low speed impacts the amount of chain growth would be to high with to little distance for the cassette to move and it would engage eventually causing a force on the cranks that is noticeable.
What most riders mistake for pedal kickback is the uncontrolled movement of the chain in harsh terrain. The, often counteracting, wave like movements of the chain cause all kind forces to disturb ride feel and suspension performance. I found this discussed in detail by a Trek suspension engineer. Actually all full suspension bikes would benefit from a chain guide keeping the chain as controlled as possible. unfortunately chain guides are mainly associated with the purpose to hold the chain on the sprockets and futher with DH or freeriding.

[marcandrecoutu]

I find I prefer the feel of instant engagement on my Hydra hubs, but can't say that it's helped my climbing game. We are in the realm of diminishing returns here... I'd say the same for my carbon hoops.

[ThunderStruckMTB]

For me, my 36T 350s are perfect. I love the sound, ease of maintenance, bullet proof reliability and the 10* of engagement is just fine. I have the newest versions of the 350 with the classic ratchet and not the EXP version, and if DT ever changes all of their hubs to the EXP style, then I'll go back to hope hubs. I don't like riding with someone with I9s, much less having that sound on my own bike.... just not my thing. I have been looking into an Onyx hub as total silence would be amazing, but their reliability issues and price has so far kept me on 350s.

[gunny]

Great Review & Explanation…. When I upgraded my wheel set to Bontrager LineComp 40’s (Trek 2021 Roscoe 6), I also upgraded the hub to 108T, which made a HUGE difference for me and I don’t foresee “ME” needing anything better.. 🇺🇸

[cgmtb]

Simply put, I love high engagement hubs. Since moving to the hydra, high POE is critical when pushing through technical sections. If the loud buzzing is too much, I would suggest an Onyx hub as they are silent and have instant engagement. I’m used to the pedal kickback and have grown to not worry so much about my suspension being hindered, rather enjoying myself out on the trail with a loud, high engagement hub is what I love!

[laurynasjagelo]

Something to point out; The wheel doesn't provide as much pedal kickback when the wheel is turning. Rather it is under braking and in big (climbing) cogs at slow speeds is where the effect is noticeable the most. In mid-small sprockets and at high (wheel rotational) speeds the pedal kickback in negligible

[mikaeloja]

I have the DT 350 Hub with 54 tooth ratchet. I have tried the 36 tooth aswell but I ended up going with the tighter engagement. Love your videos man 👌🏻

[lazylearner]

Other than OEM hubs, I have only owned Hadley and Chris King. Kings are really nice and is the only reason I don't sell an old bike with the old 135 rear dropout. Another thing to discuss that is hard to quantify is drag. The Kings seem to have such little drag. I only notice this when cleaning the chain and back pedaling it on the work stand. Kings never need service once you are past the first 1k miles. They just keep going and stay clean. My old king hub has over 15k on it and although I have had the shop open it up 4 times, the grease is clean and bearings feel perfect. Personally I am not a fan of loud hubs. My Kings are far more quiet than most OEM and well as other hubs. I think Onyx is the fastest engagement and is also silent. But I can't get over the weight of that hub.

[ToddNZMTB]

It's pretty cool that you can replace the innards if the hub without needing a whole new one.

[SpencerBaum]

I went from a stans neo hub, with 5 degrees of engagement to an Onyx vesper, which has basically instant engagement and while the difference isn't massive (probably because th stans hubs are pretty good anyway) I still really can notice it and I much prefer the quick engagement. Pedaling between features and getting up tricky climbs is much more immediate

[danielg]

I love high engagement and loud hubs just for the sound alone. Being able to ratchet backwards it’s always a plus but I go for sound alone

[Bonanno]

I have an Onyx on my single speed full SUS bike and a 5-degree Stan's hub on my XC. The zero is much better in technical, slow speed work like riding a single speed uphill. I like the 5 degree for faster riding mostly because of free play in the hub. It really does soak up some of the feedback to your feet. I feel that it is important when standing on the pedals for a long time. Also, the Onyx is dead silent, I surprise hikers and runners quite often, especially when they have headphones in. The noise of hubs is helpful on multi use trails.

[sluette]

The engagement angle of the I9 is very impressive, but you should also keep in mind that this is only achieved because only one of the six pawls is engaged.
With spur gearing, the entire wheel is engaged, which makes a much gentler power transmission possible.

[hansonwang]

Good stuff! I came from a 108 POE hub to a 75 POE hub and do in fact notice a difference when riding. I’m sure in a few months I’ll get use to it, but I am really tempted to get another 100 or above POE hub I’m just so use to near instant engagement.

[numbers]

I've been running RaceFace Vault hubs that have about 3 degrees of engagement. They engage quickly enough to make them feel very responsive but don't have a "direct drive" feel. I haven't had an issue with kickback, and love the snap.

[benstanway]

If you have a high pivot bike with a pulley like a Forbidden, Hope 916, Norco Sight or Range then chain kick back is not an issue. Although I would say there's a tipping point where too high engagement can cause drag downhill.