Do Cessationists Miss Out on the Full Joys of Christianity?

Ask Pastor John
Episode: 1163

[Mintliam]

I like the temperate nature of John Piper given that he has to address such a contentious topic. Clearly reflecting the fruits of the Spirit. Thank you Pastor!

[solideogloria]

I don't think "miss out on the full joys of Christianity" is a good term. The full joy of Christianity is God Himself. It is His presence, His love, His peace - He is the full joy of Christianity. It is not the gifts! Furthermore, Paul is clear - every believer has a spiritual gift which is for the common good. Maybe cessationists just don't realize that what they have is a spiritual gift.

Paul says that we should desire spiritual gifts. So, we should! That's what the Bible says.

The Bible is also clear though - people who do not have the Holy Spirit will act as if and profess that they have the Holy Spirit. That is one thing we must guard against.

Gifts are for the edification of the Body of Christ. Tongues, as Paul says, are to be interpreted (so then therefore I do not think there is a personal prayer language, nor do I think that people who speak in tongues without an interpreter present are speaking by the Spirit for God is one of order, not chaos) and are for the unbeliever's sake.

Gifts are from the Spirit and should give glory solely to God. Anyone who seeks and "does" these gifts for their own glory is not of God.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The same God who bestowed spiritual gifts upon our early church bretheren remains our God now! Why should we limit the work of the Holy Spirit? We shouldn't put God in a box! With that said though, we must be careful. Every believer has a spiritual gift but not everyone who claims to have a spiritual gift is a true believer. Furthermore, seek God, not the gifts. You should only seek gifts for the glory of God alone. It should only be a by-product of your walk with Christ and your desire to glorify Him.

God bless!

[JMz]

Nothing in scripture tells us that Spiritual Gifts (healing, prophecy etc) will stop. And my experience tells me that, I've seen people healed many times and been prophesied over times and it's come true. That's all Gods glory man.

[jadude]

Yup. We can say the same thing about the gift of teaching. It's abused but somehow we have Pastors like John Piper doing a solid job at looking at text and accurately preaching them. Should we throw out the gift of teaching then because it is abused by some "Pastors" in the church? Absolutely not! And it is the same with the gift of tongues and supernatural gifts like that.

[zacharysapp]

I agree with Piper in that God can do whatever He wants, wherever He wants, whenever He wants. However, I believe that you can experience even greater joy in the Father by not participating in the Apostolic spiritual gifts of the New Testament (tongues, healing, prophecy). If we look at the walk of faith displayed by an Apostolic Cessationist, we can see that their faith is in the Word of God and not solely in the works God can produce. If we parallel the Continuationist against the Cessationist, we can see that the Works of the Spirit (proof/validation) are seen as more valuable than the Bible it's self. Though no Continuationist would openly say that works are more powerful than the Bible, we can see that this mentality is clearly displayed in the Extreme Charismatic movement today, based on their emphasis on what God can do rather than what He has done. In conclusion, finding joy in the Lord without the need for ecstatic experiences will yield a more authentic trust and love for the Father, rather than predicating trust and love on the gifts through Him. Apostolic Cessationists are no better than Continuationists and vice versa, but I do humbly believe that Cessationists display a deeper faith and trust in the Lord by simply reading his Word and getting to know Him through prayer without the desire to "experience more." My belief is based on 2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

[leewilson]

An excellent answer. Christ exalting as usual!

[Jawond]

As a cessationist i appreciate the Charity although i disagree

[approvedofGod]

Amen! I agree with John Piper on this subject.

[hila]

The serpent said to the woman, “ Did God said you shall not eat ( have joy) of any tree in the garden ? 🤔

[liyadesta]

GOD IS MOST GLORIFIED IN US WHEN WE ARE MOST SATISFIED IN HIM!

[hshager]

Perhaps I missed something. I don't think Dr. Piper answered the question that was asked. Even by the definition that Dr. Piper made of Cessationism, Cessationists do not believe that all spiritual gifts have ceased. Only the "extraordinary" gifts. But when he tries to repeat the question that Matthew asked, he says it is "whether the denial of the presence of Spiritual gifts will limit the goal of Christian Hedonism" and continues to misrepresent Cessationist as not believing in any Spiritual gifts.

[babiambo]

Usually there are two arguments. First, miracles are given to believers so that they will have joyful and abundant lives. Second, some claims that the miracles are used by God to save people (bring people to Jesus). In fact, a person who depends a lot on the 'manifestation of the power of the Holy Spirit' (healing, ecstatic experiences, pursuit of happiness, etc.) tends to have less joys, because he/she focuses on the 'gifts' not the Giver. Also, we are facing the same problems as the Corinthians, we use/crave the spiritual gifts to show off/serve ourselves (the term 'Christ-centric' has been abused to mean, in practice, 'me-centric'). Love (which will bring joy) is the goal of Christian life, the very purpose of gifts is to serve and build the church and other people with love, and love is more important than gifts. So, do we need miracles and tongues to build God's church? Jesus said he will build His church, and it does not depends on us. If God knows that many people will be saved through miracles, He will do it. In fact, Bible tells us in many stories that miracles do not always brings faith (a chicken and egg problem: miracles --> faith, or faith --> miracles?)

[PraisingGOD]

All I hear is "more, more, more" if God has to reveal himself more to his people the faith in Jesus christ and the apostles biblical works are not sufficient for faith.

[gordonhumbled]

I have a question please. Cessationists believe that after the canon was closed, I agree the canon is closed, God does not give more revelations, does not speak.

If God gives no more revelations, then how did Cessationists know that God has given the doctrine of Cessation?

Also, there is no foundation in Scripture to support the doctrine.
The pillar verse Cessationists use is 1 Corinthians 13:10 in which Paul says that when the perfect has come the gifts will pass away. They give the private interpretation that the perfect came when the Bible was completed and canonized. However, verse 12 gives the time that the perfect comes. It is when we see face to face and know as we are known. These two phrases are 2nd coming words because it is Jesus that we long to see face to face and it is when we receive our glorified bodies that our knowledge is greatly increased so that we know as God knows us.
So, the doctrine has been added to God's doctrines, God's Word, by the Cessationists.
Also, even more so Cessation doctrine takes away the supernatural gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.

How can they get by Moses' command, the writer to Proverbs command, and Apostle John's command, inspired by God, not to add or take away from God's Word lest one loses their salvation?

Deuteronomy 4:2
You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Some people argue that the verses in Revelation only apply to Revelation. However, when one realizes that the Holy Spirit placed the same command in 3 other places (also Deut. 12:32) this put more weight upon it to be God's universal will.

[dg_f_Christs]

Why are the Reformed nit-picking at Ps John Piper for various shortcomings? Is there a greater law of Christ that's eluding me? Why do we limit God by claiming 'He does not and will not do whatever He pleases' due to the limit of our understandings?

[rickcampanella]

Good God the book of Acts is a transitional book. Some books are describing what happened in the old testament. Tell me what's the difference between tongues and babbling?

[j.m]

Cessationists make no sense they pray for the revival that was seen in the days of Elijah, Christ, and the apostles. Yet in every revival seen in the Bible it was followed by a manifestation of God's power! Oxymoron much?

[adamgrigsby]

Of course they miss out. Cesationists don't believe God speaks directly and that we can know God like Bible people did

[robertcain]

Would not Cessationists also be operating some of the gifts unbeknownst to themselves? Since all believe they partake in Holy Spirit.

[taylor-gqrg]

although I myself am a cessationist, I completely disagree with John's interpretation of this text. In the first three verses of 1st Corinthians 13, Paul does NOT say that WE can speak in tongues of men and angels and have faith to move mountains and yet not have love. He says, for the sake of emphasizing his point to everyone listening, he makes it very very obvious and easy-to-understand by saying that if HE spoke with the tongues of men and angels, with all knowledge and faith as much to move mountains, and does not love, he is the clanging of a Rusty gate or a banging cymbal. being noisy and useless and he will never properly lead anyone in true discipleship. That passage is not speaking at all of justification, but of someone's effectiveness in sharing the gospel, because one must do it practicing patience and gentleness while being persistently diligent in his pursuit of spreading the gospel.