Are Baptists Reformed? | Theocast

In today’s episode, Jon and Justin have a conversation about the Reformation and the streams that flowed out of it pertaining to covenant theology. While there are disagreements amongst and between various traditions, Presbyterians, the Reformed, and confessional Baptists agree on a lot! This discussion covers some history, as well as the significant points of agreement. Let’s make Reformed catholicity a thing!

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[Albrecht]

Even if I don't go to a Reformed or Baptist Church, I really love visiting this channel every now and then to listen to the rich discussions these godly men presents to their listeners. 10/10 would recommend to any friends and families.

[themanincharge]

Reformed sacramentology and ecclesiology would make a great episode on this pod.

[lindaann]

I wish I would have heard that a long time ago. Rest in the Lord. Dread verses joy.

[jeffholm]

Half of the gospel is exactly what I had realized until I heard reformed preaching. GARBC baptists were preaching the imperatives while skimming through the indicatives. Voddie and Sinclair Ferguson both brought that to light for me. Imperatives are easy to preach. The indicatives take a whole lot more work. The WCF and catechisms have sure helped us of late.

[blakeslanternshack]

The divide between Baptist has became so great in the area of doctrine, as the mainstream Baptist churches become more and more contemporary, shallow theology and semi-pelagian, reformed Baptist is always just a good short hand label to let people know where u stand in relation to the majority of Baptists. There’s a huge difference between a contemporary dispensational church that loosely holds to the Baptist faith and message, and a 1689 confessional covenantal minded church. I grew up in the SBC tradition and although some of the old churches I grew up in were closer to a 1689 perspective than they probably realized, they have been swallowed up and have disappeared to time.. those old school Baptist churches that although couldn’t tell u anything about Calvinism, or the reformation the way they preached Grace and salvation the work of Christ on our behalf was very reformed ish. But they were just preaching the word… most those old preachers I grew up around never went to seminary and didn’t know all this historical stuff and “ism”. They just preach Christ crucified and God blessed us… this is why it was easy for me to come to a more reformed understanding of my faith because it was basically what was taught to us growing up, without the labels and/or an understanding of the labels and history. The more i studied the more I realized hey!! This is what was always preached to us!!! That’s how I already believe yet the majority of the “Baptists” i talk to now don’t agree with it. So when i was exposed to more Pelagian and or Armenian-ish teaching in bigger SBC churches I had to sit back and say now wait a minute.. that goes against everything I was taught growing up.. Calvinistic and reformed teachings used to be ingrained into some SBC churches but the labels weren’t threw around. Those churches were Amill n there eschatology too… I didn’t realize how Dispy the Baptist churches were till I got older and started learning more. Reformed teachings just helped me piece together the puzzle pieces better for a greater understanding of what I already loosely held to. I knew what to believe but not so much the why! There was still a shallowness to it. And unfortunately not being grounded and rooted more heavily in there theology brought about the end of allot of those churches or they slowly drifted to the more mainstream generic Christianity as time went on. And are a shell of what they used to be.

[mkarzt]

Chefs kiss @25:30. “Monocovenantalism”

[strykerdawn]

I understand we are in Adam and are conceived in sin. But aren't we guilty also by our sin. Each and every person has their own sin.

[warrenroby]

Some Baptists might be Covenantal and Calvinist but not Reformed. Redeemed Zoomer has videos which sketch this out.

[SammyIvories]

C. H. spurgeon on baptist perpetuity
"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at thereformation, we were reformers before Luther or Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the very days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel underground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor I believe any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer, as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with the government, and we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men". (From The New Park Street Pulpit, Vol.VII, Page 225).

"History has hitherto been written by our enemies, who never would have kept a single fact about us upon the record if they could have helped it, and yet it leaks out every now and then that certain poor people called Anabaptists were brought up for condemnation. From the days of Henry II to those of Elizabeth we hear of certain unhappy heretics who were hated of all men for the truth's sake which was in them. We read of poor men and women, with their garments cut short, turned out into the fields to perish in the cold, and anon of others who were burnt at Newington for the crime of Anabaptism. Long before your Protestants were known of, these horrible Anabaptists, as they were unjustly called, were protesting for the 'one Lord, one faith, and one baptism.' No sooner did the visible church begin to depart from the gospel than these men arose to keep fast by the good old way. The priests and monks wished for peace and slumber, but there was always a Baptist or a Lollard tickling men's ears with holy Scriptures, and calling their attention to the errors of the times. They were a poor persecuted tribe. The halter was thought to be too good for them. At times ill-written history would have us think that they died out, so well had the wolf done his work on the sheep. Yet here we are, blessed and multiplied; and Newington sees other scenes from Sabbath to Sabbath.

As I think of your numbers and efforts, I can only say in wonder - what a growth! As I think of the multitudes of our brethren in America, I may well say, What hath God wrought! Our history forbids discouragement." (From the Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, 1881, Vol. 27, page 249.)

[davidkunze]

So God predetermened in eternity past that Adam would sin and that of course he would have no free will to chose other wise? Thanks

[leebecton]

Episodes like this one are always encouraging. They are encouraging in that they display how God uses one brother’s misrepresentation of pastor Wilson to further grow CREC churches. Though he has affirmed the active obedience of Christ, and admonished those who don’t teach the double imputation of Christ and His people; some brothers are just convinced that he denies it.

But, the encouraging part is that God uses those misrepresentations to spur Christians to read pastor Wilson’s material, and then after being bewildered that he is clearly reformed and orthodox, find his teaching to be quite edifying. It is encouraging to see how God works.

But, i would still recommend that you explain your disagreements with pastor Wilson in such a way that does not falsely represent him as one of who denies the necessity of the imputation of Christ’s active obedience.

[PastorMcfly]

I'd be interested to hear how you would defend your posiiton against antinomianism. I'm sure you reject it but you sound like you adhere to it. Also, the only place in Scripture that says "faith alone" is in James 2 where he says ".... salvation is not by faith alone" (26), and the whole chapter as it related to Paul who never says "faith alone" anywhere. And where is Gen. 22 in your theology? As a FR advocate, also, remember there are at least 4-6 different streams within that unerstanding. Doug Wilson does, in fact, subscribe to both the Active and Passive Obediance of Christ imputed to us. I understand that you can't say everything in a 30 min Podcast and you are giving an overview. But you did "name drop" and need to be correct on how you represent his views.

[rlolo]

"Earning life"?? By abstaining from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Which God knew mankind would be unable to abstain from in the first place? Wouldn't he be guilty of self-righteousness then? Which is a slap in the face of God in my opinion. Our "good" can never be good enough, it is stained by our imperfection of simply being human, sinful or not. We were born with sin nature. We don't have our future "glorified" sinless bodies. Adam had it once and it was tainted by his sin. Ours is already tainted before we are born. We can't earn life. Adam couldn't have either. It was given to him already. (Unmerited favor?) Life was taken away because of his sin. Anyway, none of it makes sense.

[shawngillogly]

Some are. Most aren't. Classic Confessionalism is not a popular topic among Baptists. Just look at the brouhaha over Law's Amendments in the SBC. And that's a 2000 document. Chronological Snobbery, as C.S. Lewis called it, is alive and well. Even among nominal Calvinists. Lamentably.

That said, Muller said it is incorrect to excise Particular Baptists from the Reformed Stream, especially if one does not remove Congregationalists as well. The 1689 and Savoy Declaration are too close in thought.

[BibleBasicsTyCampbell]

Definitely not... glad I'm not reformed!

[bad_covfefe]

Why should I believe theocast instead of MacArthur, Piper, Wilson, or heck, the Catholics or the Orthodox?

Because you say you can support your beliefs from scripture? So do all of those others.

Because you say you take the whole context into account? So do all the others.

I've read the verses in question, and it is not clear to me from scripture which one of you is correct.

[oztheberean]

Not directed at anyone or this channel. I'm grateful for the confirmation that "Confessions" = Theological Word Salads

As mentioned in videos like these, if you're new...Think about these concepts. They're almost always painted and presented in a "Godly" manner. Thank you and no thank you. If you're new like I once was stick to the scriptures and don't add any "sides."