Sam Harris- Debating the Lab Leak, Gaza, the Self, and Extremism

Sam Harris is an author, podcaster, public intellectual, ex-New Atheist, card-returning IDWer, and someone who likely needs no introduction. This is especially the case if you are a DTG listener as we recently released a full-length decoding episode on Sam.

As you will hear we get into some discussions of the lab leak, what you can establish from introspection and the nature of self, motivations for extremism, coverage of the conflict and humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and selective application of criticism.

Enjoy!

Timestamps
00:00 Intro
1:02 Lab Leak
16:00 The limits of introspection
32:08 Debates on Self
45:01 The role of jihadism in the Gaza conflict
54:19 (Mis)representations of the war in Gaza
1:04:48 Collateral Damage and Intentions
1:09:56 The Ethics of Ethnic Cleansing
1:27:16 Selective Criticism and the Far Right

Sources
- Kevin Drum's blog. 'I read the entire Slack archive about the origin of SARS-CoV-2. There is no evidence of improper behaviour'
- Global Catastrophic Risk Institute: The Origin and Implications of the COVID-19 Pandemic: An Expert Survey.
- Our previous interview with three Virology experts on the Lab Leak:
- New York Magazine article by Eric Levitz 'Sam Harris’s Fairy-Tale Account of the Israel-Hamas Conflict'
- The Israel Democracy Institute. War in Gaza Public Opinion Survey (2): See Question 15.
- Sam Harris Episode 351: 5 Myths about Israel and the War in Gaza
- Making Sense Podcast Episode 352: Hubris & Chaos- A Conversation with Rory Stewart
- Atran, S. (2016). The devoted actor: Unconditional commitment and intractable conflict across cultures. Current Anthropology, 57(S13), S192-S203.

[benholman]

Imagine Eric having the intellectual honesty or humility to come on the show for push back. Speaks volumes the kind of man Sam is compared to the other clowns

[zMarcusHD]

you guys need to change up thr background. looks like this was filmed in the seventh circle of hell

[guitarsandbongos]

So glad Sam came back on DTG!!! (and that you put this on YouTube)

[Brian-osqj]

Sam getting out there, conversing with open minded people, is a great thing for everyone. He is not always deadon a subject. He is not always off base. He is always reasoned and open to points that ARE reasoned. That is as good as it can be imo. Thx to these folks trying their best.

[glenrotchin]

The answer to the question of why Hamas is expressing the pretense of Palestinian nationalism if all they really care about is martyrdom, is strategic. The west won’t support jihadism. But it supports supposed ‘anti-colonial’ indigenous nationalism. Support of western constituencies including at the UN is critical for their fight since they are outgunned.

[OfTheGaps]

@44:10 _"We're not going to get to the bottom of metaphysics in 25 minutes"_ That's one way of signalling that you completely missed the point. Sam was explicitly _not_ talking about "metaphysics" when you cut him off. He was talking about observable phenomena, and was distinguishing those phenomena from the spurious metaphysical claims some people try to tack on.

[luisgallardo]

I think there was fair pusback to Sam; but it felt very rushed on some topics.

Maybe could have focused on fewer topics and get deeper into the details while saving some of the other topics for another ocassion.

But, of course, I don't know how available Sam is for DtG to reach.

[coreyander]

Oh, I didn't realize Decoding the Gurus had been on YouTube for a few months now! I don't understand why all podcasts don't upload to YouTube. Bad commenters?

[nathanjones]

I used to be into all the sort of soft-right commentators and podcast personalities. The only one I still have any time for is Sam Harris. And he shows why in this interview.

[sirlordcomic]

There was a layer of martyrdom in The Troubles. Bobby Sands is revered by groups of people in the Middle East for that reason. I do think Sam gives too much emphasis to the role of Jihad in the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict though. It plays a part but this is more a nationalistic struggle between two groups of people for the same land. The military tactics of each side relate to the power imbalance.

[billyv]

Netanyahu supported Hamas and other Islamists over the PA to avoid a two state solution - doesn't that matter?

[jordanrattanavong]

I love how Sam has been making the rounds on small podcasts.

[paddydiddles]

Extremely useful discussion as touching on many areas of controversy

[wordscapes]

Regarding the Self. Brain damage clearly shows that the entire persona, the self, the personality, is a construct of perceptions. It is not permanent, it is ever changing and in flux, and is un-pin-downable, and it is not survivable after death. Any of you who have had to care for a loved one with dementia can clearly see the validity of this statement.

[IvTok]

Is there a Decoding episode on Sam Harris? I can’t find it on the channel.

[blackedmirror]

I forgot how much I loved this podcast! First time seeing your faces. Love Sam’s thought provoking clarity and you two for your snark! Can’t wait to see this one :)

[Naikonul]

can anyone explain why sam harris is on a podcast channel with 4k subscribers?

[mlach]

Many people calling themselves "rational" simply refuse condemning islam no matter the evidence. They can condemn religions, but not islam specifically. Like they have a restraining bolts in their brains.

[wilhelmmischief]

Regarding the meditation discussion around the 36 minute mark: An important part of Buddhism is that everything is impermanent. We know this intellectually, but not in our everyday experience of the world. We see ourselves as 'solid, ' 'permanent' beings. When you realize truly that everything (including everything that makes up you as a person) is impermanent and constantly changing, then you can not experience the world as a permanent 'self.' Also, the Buddha did not argue that there was no self. He argued that you can not find a self.

[devalapar]

But the tiny number of far right people in Israel could kill thousands of people. You also need to look what they do and not just at the number. The far right people in Israel are protected by the IDF. So it is not a small group. The IDF helps them.