The Reformed-Lutheran Christological Controversies: A Reformed Account (w/ Matt Hedges)

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Chapters:

00:00 Teaser

00:41 Intro

02:58 Presentation Outline & Intro

06:16 Definitions of Key Terms

10:46 Summary of the Lutheran Position(s)

15:26 Communication of Properties

42:27 Semantics of the Communicatio Idiomatum

1:20:33 Ubiquity & Omnipresence

2:10:18 Conclusion of Presentation

2:1:27 On the "Right Hand of God"

2:12:30 On More Minimalist Lutheran Views

2:15:26 Does PSA Cause a Rift in the Trinity?

2:17:29 Why does Christology matter?

2:19:38 Concluding Thoughts

#christology #protestant #protestantism #lutheran #reformed #reformedcatholic #evangelicalcatholic #churchhistory #reformation #protestantreformation #apologetics #protestantapologetics #religiousocd #religiousscrupulosity #ecclesialanxiety

[Young_Anglican]

Excited for this one! I did a deep dive into this issue a couple months ago and found it fascinating

[lpcruz]

As a Lutheran the issue is simple to me at the point of being naive. Since the divinty and humanity of Christ can never ever be separated now and in eternity wherever Christ is, there is his divinity and humanity, or where his divinity is there is his humanity and vice versa.

[d.-]

Okay, I'm not gonna lie...

most of that presentation went right over my head.

[kolab]

Loved hearing from the other side on this issue. Keep up the great work Javier!

[unit]

I am a convinced Lutheran (though I was briefly Reformed); but this was good. Thanks for showing both sides of this issue.

[WittenbergScholastic]

im a big fan of the debate between Reformed and Lutherans on this, and i think it's awesome you're showcasing the perspectives of various protestant denominations also within relation to one another, especially the incorrect/underdog side!

jokes aside, i really look forward to this video and have been heavily anticipating it!

[fluffyhead]

Definitely far more convinced by what Kilcrease had to say. Plz have Kilcrease and Matt dialogue. I think that will be fruitful.

[Steadfast-Lutheran]

St. Ignatius wrote:

"Allow me to be an imitator of the suffering of my God."

"Being imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you."

"For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit."

St. Irenaeus wrote:

"You who disdain such a God, I hardly know whether you ex fide believe that God was crucified."

St. Gregory of Nazianzus wrote:

"We need an incarnate God, a God put to death, so that we might live, and we were put to death with him.”

The Council of Trent declared:

"As according to the rule of Catholic faith we also say with the strictest truth that God died, and that God was born of a virgin. For as the Divinity was never separated from his body which was laid in the sepulcher, we truly confess that God was buried."

[ryanwarnock]

Fantastic idea! Who will be presenting the correct position on the next episode ;)

[GldnClaw]

Now do Robert Boylan or Travis Anderson from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[fluffyhead]

He had so much to say but they are just empty words at the end of the day. Here a Catholic theologian sums up the Council of Trent:

At the time of the Council of Trent, three errors had to be treated. One error was to say that the Lord Jesus was present only as a sign or figure. The Fathers would have understood this to be Ulrich Zwingli's teaching. Another error was to say that the Lord was present only by his power. This the Fathers understood to be John Calvin's teaching. There is a third error —that of Martin Luther —namely, that the presence was limited to the celebration and did not continue afterward. Not mentioned in the list but treated in the dogma was the error of Martin Bucer, namely, that the Lord is present by means of the faith of the re-ceiver. The Fathers of the Council of Trent formulated a doctrine in such a way as to treat (with spiritual medicine) each of these errors. The components of the prescription were "true, real and substantial."

Notice how Luther gets a slap on the wrist with regard to the Lord’s Supper.

[dan_m]

What denomination actually is scripture and not just the Pastors Opinion, so all the other denominations will go away..

[onceamusician]

let me suggest that if you do not see irreconcilable paradoxes you do mot understand the questions

and when you do accept that these paradoxes are irreconcilable you know there is nothing to talk about.

so all this talk is the kind of thing those afflicted with intellectual pride like to indulge themselves with

why do you dare go beyond the simplicity of the word of God to enquire of stuff that is none of our business?

because you are intelligent enough to see difficulties? well yes. so am I. But that is where you come under 'his grace, to rein in your ungodly curiosity.

or have you forgotten there i any such thing?

are you pelagians who believe that the human mind is NOT fallen?

for if it is fallen we are all to blinded by our own carnal prejudices to be able to talk of such matters at all

is your view of all reality so crabbed and narrow that you think our tiny intellects can encompass all of it?

i warrant that many theologian who may have got all the words right but never trusted loved or obeyed Christ are in hell

to finish, i have lived a working ie functional Christian life these 46 years without ever hearing of communicatio idiomatum.

so maybe it is totally unnecessary.

oh and yes, christology is important, but only up to a certain point.

denying his divinity is gross heresy, but beyond a certain point it becomes mere guess work and obsession with the unknowable and other such trivia

[fluffyhead]

He had so much to say but they are just empty words at the end of the day. Here a Catholic theologian sums up the Council of Trent:

At the time of the Council of Trent, three errors had to be treated. One error was to say that the Lord Jesus was present only as a sign or figure. The Fathers would have understood this to be Ulrich Zwingli's teaching. Another error was to say that the Lord was present only by his power. This the Fathers understood to be John Calvin's teaching. There is a third error —that of Martin Luther —namely, that the presence was limited to the celebration and did not continue afterward. Not mentioned in the list but treated in the dogma was the error of Martin Bucer, namely, that the Lord is present by means of the faith of the re-ceiver. The Fathers of the Council of Trent formulated a doctrine in such a way as to treat (with spiritual medicine) each of these errors. The components of the prescription were "true, real and substantial."

Notice how Luther gets a slap on the wrist with regard to the Lord’s Supper.