Is 'Superhero' a Movie Genre? || NerdSync

With countless films and tv shows based on comic books coming out, I want to dedicate an entire month to talking about superhero movies! But first we should probably discuss if we should even be calling them "superhero movies." Is "superhero" a type of film genre? Or are they just action movies that just so happen to have super heroes?

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———————SOURCES———————

Superhero: The Secret Origin of a Genre
What Is a Superhero?
Schatz excerpt
Kevin Feige quote
Steven Spielberg quote
Grant Morrison quote

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Comic books are an incredible medium filled with the amazing adventures of fantastic superheroes, but they are also much more than just stories on a page. We here at NerdSync see comics as a tool that can help teach us about the world we live in! Join us each week as we explore fascinating topics that range from science, history, philosophy, culture, and art, making complex ideas a little more accessible through the heroes and villains from Marvel, DC Comics, and more!

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[lordnxavier]

Nah dont think so theres too many types of superhero movies

[AlexLove]

All I know is that I hate when people are snobbish or don't give a movie any real validation simply because it's comic book based. How does that make any sense?? I hate hearing "it's good for a superhero movie." Wtf is that?

A good movie is a good movie, period. Doesn't matter if it's animated, Stars a woman, has a dog as the co-lead, is in black&white, takes place in the 1800s, or features a superhero.

Great video btw

[NerdSyncProductions]

*Couple of things:*
1) I already see disagreeing comments less than 5 minutes after the video was posted. Please watch the whole video before telling me how horribly wrong I am. Thanks!
2) I don't have a second thing, but you seem very smart and nice, so I'll leave this comment section in your hands.
3) Thought of a second thing. You can always mix genres. Action comedies, sci-fi horror, etc. Perhaps "superhero" is just mixed with a lot of other genres?
4) I'll take my leave again.

[jamesisraelson]

When people talk about how superhero movies are overdone, I just tell them it's its own genre. Imo, where you have so many of them now, it can be classified as a genre.

[zactar]

I think the question we should be asking is that, if "superhero" IS in fact a genre unto itself, what does it look like in the absence of any other genre's influence? If we take away the sci fi, adventure, action, war, detectives, fantasy, etc - what exactly is the essence of this superhero genre that we are left with? It seems to me that perhaps "superhero" refers to a particular set of conventions for mixing genres. It doesn't seem that the superhero concept can be entirely divested from some sort of sci fi, fantasy, or other genre fiction elements. In some ways, superheroes have become the great genre mixing pot where anything is possible.

[javoghnstevens]

The arguments against a superhero genre are absolutely ridiculous and ill conceived. If "too diverse" were a legitimate disqualification for genre status then there would be no such thing as "sub-genre"...which we can all agree is very real. Furthermore, if too diverse in potential is a valid disqualifier then "comedy" DEFINITELY loses it status as a genre, so does "action", "fantasy" and "foreign". Ill concede maybe superhero is a sub-genre of sci-fi/fantasy but it is absolutely its own identifiable thing.

[ChaosRayZero]

4:30 "Zorro" is Spanish for "fox."
He's sly as a fox. I'd say that might refer to his "power" of being crafty and clever (even if most people know him for the sword fighting).

[rodrigoarellano]

Great video, as always, do you think we can maybe have a video about how comic book movies affect the comics industry

[Swenglish]

That depends. Can it be a genre if it needs to be combined with another genre in order to work? If yes, then yes, it's a genre. If no, then...I'm not so sure. But I do think what Kevin Feige means is that the key to making a good Superhero movie is to not try to make it fit into the superhero genre, but to explore the superhero character/device through the lens of a genre that fits. Is wizard a genre? Is ghost a genre? Is vampire?
Those also have a bunch of story conventions attached, but I don't know that I've ever heard them called genres.

[Archtyr]

I think one additional aspect of superhero movies that makes it a superhero movie is that: the "superhero" character in the story is in an elevated position vis-a-vis most other side characters in the story. I.e. the majority of people in the story do not have superpowers per se, but are vulnerable and/or need protection from these superhero/supervillain characters. This distinguishes it from the manga genre e.g. One Piece where everyone has a fair chance of gaining their own super powers.

[Kcomix]

I think the "superhero genre" is a genre in the way that science fiction is: it can be any other genre at the same time, yet still distinguish itself

[ideamaker]

You are completely wrong about Zorro, do some research on him before talking about him. By the way, Zorro means the fox, who's sly and cunning, his origins is somewhat similar to Iron-Man in that he saw injustice and decided to do something about it.

[zyxaqc]

The way I see it, when multiple films from different genres all share a common link or theme, that link becomes it's own genre.

[Bloodglas]

I don't think superhero is a genre. People usually view Unbreakable and Chronicle as superhero movies, but they don't really share the conventions you listed. The genre is a separate part and the movie just contains superheroes. Just because two movies have superheroes in it doesn't mean they're anything alike. I doubt anyone would ever say The Dark Knight and Batman and Robin are the same genre just because they both contain superheroes.
Also, studios are still making westerns, so if that's really what Feige's worried about, he shouldn't be.

[urssoz]

I think superhero is a subgenre, not a genre on itself but it does hold conventions and similarities, but it draws from other genres, making it not fully a genre on itself

[DIYshow]

Okay can I just say that this video was super well edited? Like way to kick it up a notch, dude! Especially love the new outro! (I missed the comic misconceptions intro, too! 😉)

[jaw]

It's not its own genre, but it should fall under mythology. Like the Odyssey or Hercules. The whole concept fits. Dramatic retellings through different story tellers, larger than life characters with abilities unlike any other, the ways they get their abilities...etc

[iamimiPod]

I think the early superhero movies were a pure form of the genre, like "action, " "romance" or "comedy." Like those genres you can mix and match creating action-comedy, romcoms and the like. Ant-man is a superhero crime comedy, with "superhero" being one of the genres that discribe it. Very few movies are just one genre any more nowadays.

[SuperThebillybob]

I would say that superheroes are a thematic element and not a genre. The description used in the video of superhero stories being about the responsible use great power to attain justice makes me think of just that. Using a different example, End of Watch and 21 Jump Street are both police movies (coincidentally whose directors have gone on to work on superhero movies), and although both use police to create a theme of the bonds of those who stand together for justice in the name of the law, I would be incredibly hesitant to call them the same genre. Both films have a radically different way presenting similar themes, which ultimately makes them different genres of movie.

[AK-zikv]

Coming from a film studies background, I think this is a great start, but I'm not sure we're seeing enough evidence here to claim that the superhero film is a genre. I would love it to be, don't get me wrong, I've loved comics and superheroes since I was a kid, however, if we're talking genre we have to look at more than the baseline.

If you'll bare with me, let's take the Western as a genre. A Western is more than the depiction of the struggle of civilization against the wild (I totally understand that you know this and just didn't have time, but for the sake of argument...). A Western film is categorized by the tropes, the bones that make up a genre. In the case of a Western, you have the concept of a stranger coming into town to protect or right wrongs. only to leave again when the job is done, or a cowboy going out into the wild to retrieve something/someone. You have the trope of white hats vs black hats (where the character's morality is depicted via what color hat they wear), and the idea of harsh justice in the interest of civilization. We see these tropes in classic Westerns like Shane, but also in more modern Westerns like Hell or High Water; the sheriffs wear white hats, the robbers put on black ski masks to rob banks, but wear tan or dirty hats in their normal lives, showing that, while they are working for good, they are doing it through misdeeds and the pain of others. Both the anti heroes and the sheriffs come in and out of town, in the hope of seeking justice in their own regards, and in between, we see the vastness of the landscape as we would with any John Wayne film.

I bring all this up because, due to the nature of the superhero film, there aren't always similar tropes we can hang our argument on. We have the three tenets laid out here (which I agree with) but without more specificity, we can attribute some of these tent-poles to other films. Let's take Robocop from 1987. Here, Murphey is a man who, because of circumstances outside his control, is given greatly enhanced powers. True, it's not by his choice, but choice is not part of this conversation (Peter Parker has famously wanted to give up his powers time and again). He is a being who wears a costume and is given a name, both of which serve to tell his story and to inform the public of his past, while encouraging respect/fear. Lastly, he fights on the side of justice, overcoming those who would control him (spoilers?). So he fulfills all three tent-poles, but is Robocop a super hero?

Typically, Robocop would be considered an 80s action movie, a commentary on society, but it's not thrown into the mix when we talk about super hero films. Robocop came out two years before Tim Burton's Batman, but the latter is considered a more typical superhero film. This doesn't debunk Robocop as a superhero film, but shows that most people don't think of it as such. Two reasons could be the cause of this: one, the era in which it came out was one where the modern sense of the superhero genre was not firmly in place, or two, it doesn't follow suit with the more popularized idea of what makes a superhero film a superhero film (maybe a more, I know it when I see it, metric). This is why I feel we would need to define more tropes than these three tent-poles. Yes, those three ideas do cast a net, but it's a wide net. To call it a genre, we might need to narrow it; the trouble then being, how?

What conventions outside the basic norms can we see in a large swath of the modern and pre modern superhero film? Continuity is a relatively recent introduction into the genre (Batman and Batman Returns don't necessarily need to be viewed in order to understand how each story is told, n argument that could be made for several pre modern superhero films), and not until Iron Man did we see the idea of the shared universe even addressed. These might identify the modern superhero film, but how do we tie it back to the films of the 20th century? I'd love to hear what you (and other commenters) would consider tropes of the superhero genre, things that define the look, feel, flow, and direction of the story. Could the argument be made for the inclusion of an origin story, or an increased use of CGI or special effects, or the combination of science fiction and action film elements? I love the show and would love to hear your thoughts on this, sorry for the miniature essay :-).