Frank Turek tells the truth about predestination. @CrossExamined

@whaddoyoumeme @MelissaDougherty @alisachilders @FreethinkingMinistries @ChristianityStillMakesSense

[canwelook]

100% creation with 100% preknowledge = 100% causation

[Jephthahs_Daughter]

I wish I could freely decide that Frank makes sense.

[melbied]

Fine, I’ll grant omniscience.
The fact that he CHOSE to create people he knew would freely decide NOT to follow him and that act would result in eternal damnation leads back to: he is either not omnipotent or not omnibeneveleant.
Epicurus stands.

[roqsteady]

Knowledge, may not imply causation, but creation does. Where knowledge comes in, is knowing beforehand that your creation plan will result in evil, but still going ahead with it.

[rickelmonoggin]

that expression "outside of time" is doing a lot of work for Frank

[paulheberling]

How can he be outside of time but seeing the whole thing at once!? Doesn’t that imply being in time 🤔

[chronographer]

I've never understood why they think the line "knowledge doesn't imply causation" is a good one. When in the next breath they talk about god the "uncaused CAUSE".

Yeah, technically knowledge doesn't imply causation. An omniscient hag in the woods didn't choose your free choices. But you know what does imply causation? CAUSE DOES! That's also part of your definition of god, cause - the CAUSE OF ALL THINGS!

[equinoxproject]

Under Frank’s version of Christianity I have free but did the sperm that fertilized every egg in my entire family tree have free will, I mean just think about it, for me to be here it means an unbroken chain of procreative actions had to have happened without fail or interruption exactly how it happened right down to every single convulsive sperm tail wiggle.

[buddy.boyo]

the arminist trick : conflating foreknowledge with predestination. if predestination just meant foreknowledge than Paul would have just said knowledge

[JohnCamacho]

Well there's no free will anyway. Even if you use the definition of free will as the ability to do otherwise, then God seeing you choose X instead of Y, means that choosing Y was never available to you. So 'otherwise' is an impossibility.

[equinoxproject]

Here is Frank’s version of free will…you have a free choice to pick a candy bar from under many many overturned bowls and that a different candy bar is under each bowl, but what you aren’t told is that it’s the same candy bar under each bowl.

[blasphememes]

You didn't need to create the AI generated part. In one of his videos, he's saying basically the same thing - that God chose the outcome of the universe and thus our choices. Video is called "Do we really have free will?"

[damianwhite]

Like telling a blind person to walk over a busy road and saying "Dont worry, I know when the traffic is coming.

[buddy.boyo]

" why does he blame us for who can resist his will ?" Frank : because f**k you !

[danieldelanoche]

"Knowledge" of an event (even a future one) is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing from predestination or predetermination. So right off the bat he equivocates. He can't help himself. And obviously that's besides the fact that free will is a nonsense term.

[DevonPhoenix]

So if someone prays god already knows whether he will help or not and the outcome. And if a person doesn't pray he knew that too. And god can do anything. Nothing is impossible for god. So he chose not to exist.

[CH-inkj]

I would love to know where these guys get this "outside of time and space" crap lol I must've missed that bible passage🤔

[ZenWithKen]

How do we tell that the god didn't create and destroy universes until he got the outcome it wanted? No free will now, hey Frank?

[JW-kimd]

God willed all my sins be committed. That’s just science.

[KeanuReevesIsMyJesus]

Knowledge itself isn’t causation. But knowledge plus creation is absolutely causation. God created with full knowledge of all that will happen.

And this “free will” excuse is bogus. Why can’t God only create non-murderers with free will? God was ok getting rid of the canaanites. Where’s their free will? Why can’t God just get rid of all other bad apples before they go bad?