Did Christian Predestinarianism Began with John Calvin or Augustin of Hippo?

We covered a lot of ground and hopefully you will be aided by the discussion.

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[nicholasthill]

Actually, you can find predestination referenced in pre-Christian literature in the Dead Sea Scrolls and Enoch. In the DSS, it is overtly "Calvinistic". It surprises me few are aware of this. It, literally, took me less than an hour to find this out and find it referenced or alluded to in other ancient Hebrew apocryphal writings. According to tradition among the Jews, the debate regarding man's will and predestination is an ancient one and all sides came to the consensus that is "best that man had never been born". Those who argue it is only 500 or so years old are just being academically dishonest to protect their little theological tribes and animus towards others.

[ChandraAnandInChrist]

having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians:1:5

[kurtn]

I love it when James says...there you go!

[ManlyServant]

these guys has a very bad knowledge of church history

[emberina]

You should put the title of his video in the description, so we could go watch the original.

[ronr]

Too many ignoramuses out there pretending to know church history and doctrine. Thanks for calling this one out James!

[ReformedOudeis]

I wish when it comes to issues regarding Reformed Theology that people who have actually been in the CoC and left to become Reformed would be able to engage these folks.

There is a great advantage in having that experience when engaging the CoC. Often times those who aren’t intimately aware of what they teach and how they argue wind up falling for their traps by not having fully developed arguments on certain key texts.

We can’t simply just dismiss these guys as Pelagius reincarnated. They can and will attempt to invade your churches seeking to steal your membership and rip up your families.

We need to step up when engaging them.

[jordandthornburg]

Question for everyone: Did anyone here go read the context of this quote?

[paulcummins]

Touché, Dr. James. The guy just doesn't know what he is talking about. I always watch out for someone says there is no proof for this, or for that, or it's not in the Bible. They just can't deal with it, so they would rather deny the passages are there than to deal with them.

[DanielM-klbv]

In the same epistle Clement says, “ And again and other places the Scripture saith “with a harmless man thou shalt prove thy self harmless and with an elect man thou shalt be elect and with a perverse man thou shalt show thy self perverse let us cleave therefore to the innocent and righteous since these are the elect of God” According to Clement how does one become elect? By having fellowship with those who are elect. Elect is a Christian word. You have to prove that your understanding of the word elect is the same as what Clement means. Just because the word elect is used does not prove your point unless you assume the definition of elect.
“Let us therefore earnestly strive to be found in the number of those that wait for him, in order that we may share his promise gifts. But how, beloved, shall this be done? If our understanding be fixed by faith towards God, if we earnestly seek the things which are pleasing and acceptable to him, if we do the things which are in harmony with his blameless will, and if we follow the way of truth, casting away from us all unrighteousness in and iniquity…”

[JamesPeterCovers]

Election is very prominent in the Bible. However, extrapolating that election means God has forced His will upon us is completely out of line. Election is through the foreknowledge of God. If God needs to force a few to love Him, you are limiting His power. God has created us in His image, therefore we can chose despite being slave to sin, and then have our original state restored through trusting in Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit. It's not irresistible grace (not because that would make God inmoral, since whatever God does is perfect), if you take all the NT into account, you can see that we either accept thd gospel or we resist it, and those who accept it are God's chosen by His foreknowledge. It's that simple

[BabyAlbatrossMusic]

The doctrine of Divine Election is a high & holy doctrine, supported by Scripture. I don’t know why this a topic for podcasts. What exists on this side of eternity is the command to repent, come to a saving knowledge of the truth, & be baptized. The next steps are to move towards “setting yourself apart from the world and into Christ.” DISCIPLESHIP <— That’s a large part of the Great Commission “Go into all the world and make disciples”.

[alyssasartgarden]

You did not go into much depth in your argument also. Would have loved for you to expound on your opinion. It confuses me that christians seem so quick to take the exclusivity road. I though Jesus was about love.

[daveme]

I never understand this. Are the church fathers equal to the scriptures? Not expressing this in a more concise way. Seems like the magic words would be, “if the church fathers did not teach this, then it is not biblical.”

[Mechtrekica]

Just had a ad for coffee with swearing in it

[Zaloomination]

And these guys are probably inclined to jump on the molinism bandwagon which is even later than Calvin

[berglen]

Saul liked dung, Paul didn't, most theology secular history like dung until you wake up to second Adam in you.

[paul.etedder]

Arminianism : I wouldn’t do that so God shouldn’t do that ether . That’s not fair. Arminianism : you are dead in sin but choose God anyway. Even though God does the choosing.

[miledhayek]

Anyone who have read the parable of the marriage banquet in the gospel of Matthew will know that "election" doesn't equal "predestination". If election or chosing equals predesination then you are saying God called and invited everyone to the kingdom even if He predestined few people which is absurd. Why would you invite someone you don't want him to enter your house?

[stubowl]

wow he ended that one with a mega Freudian slip