Should the West give more arms to Ukraine? | Peter Hitchens challenges Paul Mason

Conservative political commentator Peter Hitchens challenges radical journalist Paul Mason on supporting foreign players at war.

This excerpt was taken from "The fantasies of the West", featuring Paul Mason, Peter Hitchens, and Bhavna Dave. Mary Ann Sieghart hosts.

#ukrainewar #politicsdebate #ukforeignpolicy

Paul Mason is a radical author, commentator, and political journalist. Previously the Newsnight Business Editor, Economics Editor at Channel 4 News, where he reported on Europe's troubled economic crises. He is now a freelance author and journalist.

Peter Hitchens is an award-winning conservative author, broadcaster, journalist and political commentator. He has a weekly column in the Mail on Sunday and is a prolific contributor to a wide range of magazines.

[Mac-kuxu]

No mention of the fact that Mason was exposed as an undercover operative working on behalf of the British state?

[jacksmith]

It amazes me how immature political opinion has become in the U.K.

[svenhanson]

NATO has been training the Ukraine army for the last 8 years, it's definitively not a Russian or Soviet army.

[seanmoran]

Remember Paul represents the same voices that pushed for intervention in
Iraq
Afghanistan
Syria
Libya
Etc etc etc
While meanwhile in the English Channel

[svenhanson]

In the end of march, beginning in April, in Istanbul, the two parties in this conflict were on their way to an agreement. Then Boris Johnson went to Kiev, and the negotiations ended after that visit. UK and US wanted this war to continue.

[erker]

Peter Hitchens, the last British man of reason ?

[odinallfarther]

Some of my best friend's are leftist says back stabbing Paul Mason 🤣

[AriesKJJ]

I do find it interesting that in the 70's & 80's we thought "bombing for peace" was an oxymoron and today it's the commonly accepted policy... though also back then, "war profiteering" was something to be ashamed of.

[alanchriston]

Mason should do the Japanese honourable act.
😊🏴‍☠️

[Screaming-Trees]

It's kind of sad to see what's happened to Paul Mason though. Point of information, Ukraine never had nuclear weapons. I don't know where he got it in his head that they did. Moscow always had the keys to that and was under total control at all times. Unless Ukraine were to disassemble these things and done a complete rebuild, which didn't happen, they wouldn't have had access to the weapons (logical access; which you need to operate the things in the first place) anyway. They never did. As for "all the young people I've met there want to live in western reality" well that's anecdotal. I can't believe these types of arguments are allowed to be made. It's utter amateur bullshit with this guy. Especially since we know that Ukraine not only has a massive minority Russian contingent living in these now hotly contested eastern provinces and that they've been fighting a war of secession there for the last 8 years (We know this from 8 years worth of UN reports). He would have had to have interviewed over 2500 young people to be able to make the beginnings of an empirical argument. His sample size would have had to have included minorities. Had he done that he would have found a different result. Moreover we seem to believe in the freedom of association of any country so long as it is perceived to be in our national interest. We don't believe in say Cuba's right to freedom of association or Venezuela or Iran etc etc. If they did have the freedom to associate they might associate with those whom we deem a threat to us. God forbid. So we isolated Cuba for the last 60 years basically. For essentially the same right Mason is advocating for Ukraine here. THe guy is a fucking joke now.

[chonnerone]

I love Hitchens. We need more men like him and less fools like Mason.

[felontrump]

Key Point: NATO was formed in 1949 during the height of the Cold War to oppose the Soviet Union.
List Of Countries Joining NATO And Its Expansion West Since the Collapse of The Soviet Union In 1991:
1. 1990: Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary.
2.2004: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Rumania and Bulgaria
3. 2009: Croatia and Albania
4. 2017: Montenegro.
5. 2020: North Macedonia.
6. Membership Action Plan: Bosnia and Herzegovina
7. In Intensified Dialogue: Georgia and Ukraine.
Putin had warned the Ukraine and NATO that he would not allow the Ukraine to join NATO and have US bases based next to its (Russia’s) border.
The provocation is the Intensive Dialogue between the Ukraine and NATO for the Ukraine to join NATO.
It should be noted that Russian defence strategy always takes into account the invasions of Russian from countries to its West. First by France and then by Germany.
Putin is no angel, but he has been pushed into a corner by the US and Western policy of getting former Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc countries to join NATO and the EU resulting in more and more US military facilities being based closer and closer to Russia’s borders.
There is a failure to acknowledge this provocation by the US, NATO and the EU.
Imagine the reaction if the US if the boot was on the other foot and Russia had agreements to base military facilities in Canada, Mexico or even Cuba?

[simbo]

Don't bother clicking the link to watch the "full debate" on their site. 5 minutes will play then prompt you to create an account

[jusmeetsingh]

The Ukrainian State apparatus was captured by the West in 2014 via the Nuland coup... and by it Ukraine was savagely wrested out of Russian orbit into Western control.
It is the West which controls and drives Ukraine after that coup. And since, since then it is the West which bears primary responsibility for the upheaval and anarchy which has followed.
So it will be highly unfair if the West too doesnt get hurt and bears some grievous loss and terrible pains for its manipulations which have triggered the conflict.
If only Ukraine and Russia suffer, the conflict will never get resolved. The real promoter is escaping consequence-free.
And so for the sake of world peace and for quickly resolving this conflict the West too must suffer as much.. if not more than Ukraine.
Unless the West gets its teeth politely smashed in by a New World Order it will continue to behave like a pompous abusive geopol hegemon.
And for that, it is imperative that NATO & West Must Enter This Fight And Not Manage It From The Sidelines...
The conflict must explicitly become a NATO-Russia fight. It will be very grueling for Russia. But if Russia gives some body blows to knock the West of its high horse .. it would have done a great service to mankind by its aggression on Ukraine..
Violating all commitments to Russia, NATO had already advanced eastwards across all of East Europe... But in the end, Russia couldn't stay paralyzed as this Brightest Red Line Ukraine was getting violated... the last straw on the camels back.
So despite the immense power of NATO and the prospectd of a very ruinous conflict ahead, Russia was left with no option but to intervene and stand up to Western perfidy. No matter what cost & hurt it has to bear..
This period might be dangerous and costly for Russia but thankfully for the world this conflict might end up knocking West from its pedestal and making the World a fairer place.. at great cost to Ukraine and Russia. ❤

[stuartwray]

Mason talks of territorial integrity and the Budapest Memorandum, but omits to mention the 1997 Friendship Treaty, which effectively forbid Ukrainian NATO alignment. Why in 2008, did George Bush Jr push for Ukraine NATO membership when not only Germany and France opposed such a move, but also a majority of Ukrainians?
Privately, in 2008, Russia told the US of the potential for civil war in Ukraine (which is what happened post 2014). Also in 2008, Bill Burns (currently the head of the CIA) told Condoleezza Rice that NATO expansion into Ukraine was the "brightest of red lines" not only for Putin but the entire political and military elite in Russia.

[henkverhaeren]

Very well said Peter. Totally agree. Stop the war madness. Seek peace, negotiate.

[blackbird]

"Surrounded: How the US is encircling China with military bases." -John Reed 2013, Foreign Policy website. The US is edging closer to both China and Russia with its CIA listening stations, and ''first strike operating bases.''
Mr Hitchens makes the point, Xi and Putin are upset about this and it is important to recognize why.

[seanmoran]

Paul Mason talking about a treaty that came before NATO encroachment

[emmadownunder]

Peter is totally right. He’s about the only sane journalist left in Britain.

[spartybrearly]

This is not about one side ‘winning’ or the other ‘losing’ in any military sense. Peter Hitchens is absolutely right, and has been since this phase of the war began a couple of years ago. Ukraine is not going to reclaim territory or reinforce the authority of Kiev in the Donbas and Crimea. Supply Ukraine’s military with as many fighter jets as possible, it will have no direct impact on the territorial status of the war. Ukraine doesn’t have sufficient ground forces to launch offensive actions on the level that will reclaim land.