Can I Make Titanium Damascus? Part 2

My name is Alec Steele. I am a blacksmith, amateur machinist and all-round maker of all-things metal. We make videos about making interesting things, learning about craft and appreciating the joy of creativity. Great to have you here following along!

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[benjaminkrasznai]

An explanation for the sudden expulsion of molten metal: Iron and titanium has an eutectic point at around the 70% titanium-iron mixture. This means that while both titanium and iron has a high melting point, a specific mixture of them melts at suspiciously close to your higher forging temprerature.

Also great vid, thanks Alec!

[NancyNWayman]

Previous aerospace worker. Research what Ti you are using. 6-2 is softer and corrosive with 6-4. different heat treat process also. So id assume some of this would need to be considered when making Timascus.

[SébastienGermainCareau]

I just want to sprinkle some material science to help you:

For your future work on Titanium Damascus, I suggest forging below 1085C (1050C would work just fine). When looking at the Ti-Fe phase diagram, there is what we call an eutectic reaction (a precise concentration of element that forms a liquid) at 1085C. So, in your video, the liquid metal coming out when forging at 2000F (1093C) is most likely to be this phenomenon.

Moreover, forging at lower temperatures should also help you fracture the Ti-Fe intermetallic at the canister-alloy interface, allowing you to remove the canister easily. This also explain why you cannot forged steel to titanium.

Also, the Ti-Fe intermetallic form is hard and brittle at the canister-alloy interface. This explains why you can remove the canister from the titanium billet and why cutting the as-forge surface is not great.

Cheers!

[Random_Nobody_Official]

The zoomed in view of the machine
slingshotting titanium sparks everywhere
as the guy yells in pain in the background
is hilarious

[kataep]

"lets try to avoid a titanium fire today"
*1 minute later*
*literally lighting titanium chips on fire*

[finnish_maniac]

I worked in an industrial forge for 7 years, and we sometimes forged titanium connecting rods for race car engines (AutoVerdi rods). When we did, we only heated the raw titanium billets to about 850 degree celsius before forging (2500 ton Farina press). The material was cherry red in color due to the "low" temperature (Normal steel we forged at 1080-1220 celsius), and we sure as h*ll wore out the forging dies 100 times faster than usual, haha.

[dontknow]

so if you look up "titanium phase diagram" it seems like for certain alloys it forsm different crystal structures and some of them actually have a lower melting point with higher pressures, so when you got it under the hydraulik press, it melts from the pressure. this is just my first guess idk if im right

on the other hand, back when you did the other titanium projects, you didnt experience this

[derekhartley]

Alec, you have to slow your bandsaw blade down when cutting titanium. Same reason why you slow your endmills down. I strongly suggest you learn about surface speed for your cutting tools to save some money on inserts and improve your surface finish. Thanks for the video!

[MrMikevida]

I love the way you puzzle stuff out in real time for us. It makes absorbing the knowledge so much easier.

[heskrthmatt]

6:23 In regular chemistry occasionally when you mix two things together you get a reduction in the melting/freezing point. Just a thought.

[joonashannila]

Alec got me excited about metalworking. I have now been in a metalworker school for 2 years. There's machinists, welders and fabricators coming out of there. I am studying welding & fabicating. I never expected to find a new life passion at the age of 35, so thank you Alec! I do this even on my freetime now, and will absolutely work in the industry as well. I genuinely enjoy it from the bottom of my heart.. All thanks to Alec Steele videos! I will probably do this for the rest of my life!

[Sanga]

It melts far below its melting temperature because it forms an alloy with iron. You can see it in the cross section of the ingot. The iron shell formed an alloy with the titanium inside and left the rest untouched. This can be seen in the form of a light gray layer between the iron shell and the layered titanium (as good as I can see this on the image). It gets more visible when you remove the iron casing.
In the binary phase diagram Fe-Ti, you can see that there are alloys formed with a melting temperature far below 1668C/3034F. The composition of Fe32/Ti68 shows a melting temperature of only 1085C/1985F. In combination with various other minor alloy elements in the steel and titanium this forms a melt while you “only” heat it to 1095C/2003F.

[lukaqnice]

If you are considering steel-titanium damascus, maybe consider using vanadium between the layers. I have read that vanadium foil is used in cladding titanium to steel because it is compatible with both iron and titanium (Vanadium on wikipedia - Other uses). From the reference: "It should be noted that direct welding of titanium with steel is not possible, because the welding produces brittle chemical compounds ( Ti - Fe intermetallic compounds) which cannot be avoided at temperatures exceeding 500 C." and "The best intermediate metal for welding steel to titanium lining is vanadium."

[aoeuable]

Two thoughts: Have you looked at the data sheet of the alloy and what it says about melting temperature instead of looking at pure titanium, secondly, uneven heat: Titanium has about half the thermal conductivity of steel so would be more prone to pick up hot spots from the forge.

[James]

6:12 just a hunch: that's the melting point of pure titanium. Whatever your alloy is melts significantly lower than that

[ZZTalkZZ]

Pressure changes the liquefaction point. Like how water boils at different temperatures depending on the air pressure. I think their is a secure patent that that uses a cold roller but the exact method was not disclosed due to US government’s use on pre 2000 stealth systems.

[durfkludge]

My dad was a welder for 40 years, and one time when he was working with titanium pipe, he brought home a bunch of titanium shavings so he could show me and my brother how it burned. He also had bits of pipe that he'd artistically oxidized with a welding torch to produce the iridescent rainbow colors. Cool stuff!

[barendvanderwesthuizen]

From what I saw it seems the piece failed in an almost brittle manner. It turns out mild steel reacts to Titanium at high temperatures and is very reactive at high temperatures forming intermetallic compounds, which are very hard and brittle this would cause failure at these temperatures since the titanium-iron compounds are formed by diffusion between the mild steel and titanium I suggest switching to a different alloy to hold it like a nickel-based alloy with a high melting temperature.

[mrvinmartian]

*14:53** "That's what she said"*

[michael]

LMFAO Alec modeling his shrunken drooping titanium choad, EPIC move by a legendary blacksmith