'You Have no Reason not to Rape' (Dumb Things People Say to Atheists, Part 2)

In this "Dumb Things People say to Atheists," I address an absolutely vile statement that not only degrades atheists but makes light of a horrible act by using it for leverage in an apologetic - and that is "You have no reason not to rape." If you have ideas for this series or feedback on whether you'd like to see this continue, please let me know in the comments.

As a follow-up to my initial note at the beginning of the video, I honestly hate talking about sexual assault in any way other than to increase public awareness about the extent of the problem and to provide support, resources, and justice for the victims. However, Christians have thrown this into the public arena as a jab against atheists, and the way they've done it not only besmirches our character, but (far worse) minimizes the suffering of victims by saying that it in and of itself is not important. If taken seriously, this argument badly confuses our sense of why we should be moral to teach other. I’m aware that the scenario I presented only speaks to men who are attracted to women, and I know it vastly oversimplifies all the reasons for sexual assault. The point was not to explore the topic of rape itself, but to provide a clear scenario that prompts us to consider how and why we would restrain a selfish urge. In addition, I’m addressing a stereotypical situation conjured most often by males who are at least publicly heterosexual (such as William Lane Craig, Dennis Prager, or Frank Turek), so this is the example I would present them given the chance. But if it helps, you can visualize any scenario where it’s you who are in a position to in some way gratify yourself by harming another person, and the point remains the same.

[SnakeMan]

It's a dehumanising tactic, which ironically causes the apologist to dehumanise themselves.

[sphericalchess]

Yes! And as Tracie Harris so eloquently pointed out....if a god is in the room, and has the power to stop a rape, and doesn’t, then that makes the god immoral.

[ThomasTrue]

In a similar vein, I once had a Christian tell me that without God, I had no reason not to murder. I asked him why it is wrong to kill others. He of course fell back on "Thou shalt not kill." I replied that while that's the commandment, it does not say why murder is wrong.

After thinking a minute, he replied that taking a life away from another is unjust, it should never be our prerogative to do so, that it affects all who the victim knew, and - here's the clincher - "You wouldn't want it done to you."

I replied "Well done. You've just given several good reasons why murder is wrong, without bringing God into it."

He's still a Christian, but I'm proud to say he no longer claims atheists cannot be moral.

[lucofparis]

Honestly, all questions of morality boils down to the same undeniable factor: empathy. The ability to identify one self as the other self, to "imagine living in his or her shoes", is what drives our sense of morality. This type of interaction is so fundamental that babies learn it at a very early age, not just human babies mind you. A lot of social animals have varying degrees of empathy.
And now, here's the catch: does God have empathy? Can he truly "live in our shoes"?
Apparently, God *didn't want* Adam and Eve to be like Him, wiped life off the surface of the Earth on a whim, expected sheer obedience from all humans yet never offered his help to all humans in the first place. Moreover, he punished humanity with Original Sin, then conjured Himself into a human, only to kill himself to appease his own undeserved curse. And never has he experienced true hardships and human failures during his "life", Jesus always won, and counted on his special gifts, never sinned, and never experienced being powerless in face of injustice.
I'd argue that such a God doesn't have any form of empathy with humans, despite his psychopathic attempt to "mix with the crowd" in Jesus form. He's simply incapable to experience what it is to be a timely, mortal, clueless and powerless being. So, of course he cannot have any form of empathy for mortal lifeforms.
Therefore, God is literally the last being you could come to to help humanity build a good moral standard. God has less empathy than a psychopath, because he doesn't even experience the basics of the limitations of _any_ lifeform.

[SpaceKingDinosaur]

Great thought experiment! I have a couple of thoughts to add. First, while the room analogy works fine, it could perhaps be even more effective to say "on a desert island where no one else would ever know." You clearly expressed this concept in your experiment, I merely suggest that this could make it seem less abstract.
Second, in your scenario asking if you'd stop someone intending to rape, we might then add on yet another variable such as, "Would you still stop this individual if they said that they had been commanded by God to rape?" I'd be curious how someone might answer that.
Thanks for this series. It is already superb. Keep Being Awesome!

[grendelum]

When I moved from Manhattan to SW Florida in high school (which sucked) in the early 1990s, I was _assaulted_ by the church kids, which was the majority. Though I was an atheist (helped there by the priest who baptized me), I told them I was baptized in the *Episcopal Church, * which was true, *_but that wasn’t good enough for them._* Apparently, the Baptist Church was the one true church and my god credits didn’t carry over to their world. I got the full court press from teachers pressuring me, older students bullying me and the classic honeypot trying to get me to go to one of their sing-alongs... it was really disgusting. The upside once I started pulling kids *_out_* of their group with logic and they left me alone, was once I bought my first car, going to the _”Christian retreat”_ (like a summer camp for Baptist families) on the weekend was the *_easiest_* place to pick up girls my age to go hang out at the beach at night 😉

[TheHonestPeanut]

It's interesting how many theists don't understand what empathy is.

[laurajarrell]

Prophet of Zod, very nicely put. After we get them to realize that many, many people, don't do bad things without thinking a god is there, can we point out that with their god, anything is OK, just get forgiven after? Because that's how it really seems to work. And that is how I've handled both 'without god, what stops, rape, murder, blah, blah. ' and 'you just want to sin!' I just point out, 'no, we have no one to forgive us, they do.' And rape isn't even that big a sin in the bible. But that has to come later, when they can listen. No one hears when they are mad! Love and Peace

[mamamheus]

Best reply to this yet. Thank you. It's some I always knew but could never put it into words. Mercifully, atheists aren't usually persecuted where I live (I chose that word deliberately btw).

[SinthiaVicious]

I have gotten into this conversation with more than one person(!) who were willing to say, or at least not deny, that they would be interested in rape and/or murder if the fear of hell didn't enter into it. I asked them flat out if they knew they could get away with it if they would do it and a couple of them said yes!

[HogTieChamp]

If you're in a chair, get ready to fall out of it!
I once had on online "debate" on morality with a particularly obnoxious radical evangelical. He said all of the typical things, including going to the rape example.
On my turn, I noted that the issue can be discussed with a less emotionally-charged example such as punching a stranger or stealing an Xbox, but whatever...
I had laid out my own basis for morality, so I moved forward to apply this reasoning to sexual assaults. I said, "So now we can look at the pros and cons of rape -- Why _would_ someone rape somebody?"
Not recognizing the role of a rhetorical question, the guy answered, "Because it feels good to rape people."
That line derailed my entire point. I paused to make sure that the audience understood that I did not stipulate that claim. I said that it is my opponent's position that "It feels good to rape people" and that I do not share that position.

[GuitarDog_atx]

Great thought experiment. Destroys the opposing argument.

Xtians do ignore that their god condones rape:

Judges 5:30
Judges 21:10-24
Numbers 31:7-18
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
2 Samuel 12:11-14
Exodus 21:7-11
Zechariah 14:1-2

[diobrando]

That question isn't a legitimate question it's fighting words. Anyone who ask that is just hoping to start a fight to distract from the argument.

[clemstevenson]

I have, in the past, received “you only want to sin” email accusations from an American theist. They seem to need to justify their own faith, by asserting that there must be something inferior about those who don’t share their beliefs. Theists appear to be trapped in a perpetuated ‘belief=fact’ loop, whereby they have to view their own beliefs as being factual in order to justify their own beliefs.

[phantmwolf]

Dude, your videos just keep getting better and better, everything from how you address a topic to your animation and presentation. Very well done.

[whitefang]

Came out to one of my Christian friends this last week and was hit with "atheists have no reason not to rape babies"... cool. cool cool cool

[nietzscha]

I am a rape victim. I recently had someone say to me (without knowing my history) that they would rape a girl if God hadn't commanded differently and they wouldn't be caught by the law. I lost my shit, but I didn't want them to know my history and they acted like "well duh, if God didn't exist, why would anyone not rape?" I'm still livid.

[PurpleRhymesWithOrange]

Very well done. I'm really enjoying this series. Sometimes when someone makes one of these statements the level of stupidity just leaves me unable to respond

[SKO_PL]

Oh my goodness, the intro felt so good I watched it 3 times in a row. :D
-What's the music?-
Edit: Alright, you finally credited it in the description.

[PiRobot]

"The fact that it is wrong compelled you not only to not rape, but to stop others from raping." Oh, if only there were a God who cared about protecting people enough to prevent rapes from happening like any decent human should do.

What? This God is willing to protect rapists' free will as long as they say sorry afterwords? If free will is so important, protect the victims!