We’ve Been Searching For Aliens All Wrong, Researchers Say (and they have a point)

Civilizations need energy to expand. You’ve probably heard of the Kardashev scale, which classifies civilizations based on their ability to generate and use energy (if you’re interested, humans are barely on the scale). A new paper has shaken up that scale by putting forth new ways that advanced civilizations could harvest energy, including “eating” stars. Let’s take a look.

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#science #sciencenews #aliens #space

[Velereonics]

Julius Caesar would be delighted to learn that despite Rome now being Italian, his empire has a very high rating on the Kardashian Scale.

[Louie-Knox]

I can't stop hearing "star lifting" in Isaac Arthur's voice.

[MrTohawk]

If you'd ask people 1000 years ago how we produce energy they'd probably say something about windmills, watermills and burning stuff. Which is still like 90% of what we do to get energy. So they'd be right

[andreasvox]

Forget the Kardeshev scale, may I introduce the Great Filter scale? It ranks civilizations by their ability to avoid Great Filter events.
Stage 1: avoid destroying your own ecosystem, either by resource exhaustion, pollution or physical destruction
Stage 2: avoid being hitten by an asterioid from the own system that's big enough to destroy the civilization/species
Stage 3: survive extreme radiation events, either by emssions of your own star or nearby super novas
Stage 4: avoid astrological catastrophies by relocating to another planet, including a supporting ecosystem
Stage 5: avoid astrological catastrophies by relocating to another star system, including a supporting ecosystem
Stage 6: avoid astrological catastrophies by relocating to another galaxy, including a supporting ecosystem
Stage 7: avoid the heat death of the universe
This scale is compatible with the Kardashev scale in so much that humans haven't reached stage 1 in either scale yet.

[napoleonfeanor]

What about a Cardassian scale. It measures your dedication to the state over many generations.

[genehawkridge]

Buckminster Fuller was fond of talking about doing more with less. I think he was on the right track.

[BalefulBunyip]

Sabine, you are always engaging. Thanks for providing an interesting viewpoint.

[alieninmybeverage]

We should probably be checking the cosmic microwave background for type 420 civilizations that had their Dyson sphere ready for the big bang. They probably used all the energy to grow large potatoes.

[coopersy]

A successful civilization won’t feel they need to destroy things, when truly advanced tech would let you live and prosper among nature. The amount of greed necessary to drive type 2 wouldn’t be survivable for a large society.

[richardgardiner]

I would expect a civilization able to eat stars for energy to eat other people's stars not they're own.

[scottmiller]

Your summary point is well-taken - we have no idea what tech an advanced civilization would use.

[MagnumInnominandum]

We adore making things up and naming them.

[crawkn]

The main problem with using energy at levels even approaching that radiated by stars is that it becomes both a containment and an application problem. While some applications have been proposed, such as FTL travel or moving planets around, there's no known material from which to build machines that can handle such energy flux levels. Energy isn't cooperative about remaining concentrated.

[David-lcw]

A Dyson sphere would have a neat unique design but be way more expensive than a Hoover sphere.

[munthon]

May I sugest Isaac Arthur, long lasting youtuber and lately president of American National Space Society. He has a bunch of videos on K2 civilizations, including star lifting

[timh]

It seems remarkably similar to the Talking Out of Uranus Scale.

[tontonbeber]

Our mistake is that we always supposed that aliens read our scifi books.

[pcbacklash_]

This sort of energy acquisition (and, of course, _consumption), _ seems to be on ridiculous scales, and I honestly can't imagine a civilization EVER needing that much energy to flourish. It's like using a nuclear plant to power a TV remote!

[WonkyWiIl]

The problem with the entire K grade of civilisation is the expectation that future civilisation will be as profligate with resource use as we are.
Might a future civilisation be actually civil and develop efficient and effective ways of doing more with less thereby circumventing the need to use the entire energy output of a star. I cannot believe people think this likely let alone possible.
The first graphic showing we use a a tiny amount of what is available now should be the trigger for us to put the K scale in the cosmic shredder.

[anotheruser]

Thanks for dropping Leon Skum in the clip. Was just in time to stop it and move one. /s