Do Microwaves Need to be Protected by GFCI? (NEC 2023 210.8(D)

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Canadian electrician here. We have not adapted range, dryers, microwaves etc for GFCI protection. It seems inane, but maybe I'm just uneducated about the reasons. The only reason I can think of is to push new products out the door that otherwise wouldn't be bought for any reason. I struggle to think of a valid reason why an elevated microwave needs GFCI protection. Likewise with the range. You go from charging the homeowner $40 for a two-pole breaker now to several hundred, causing homes to be continously more expensive, and if you're doing renovations you must charge for all this accordingly, and your prices will push people to seek alternative contractors that will do the jobs for cheap and not pull permits.

If anyone has a valid reason to install a range, dryer, microwave on a GFCI branch circuit or receptacle, please kindly let me know.

avsrule

Interesting where some people get their information. The NEC is getting more and more stringent on GFCI protection, especially in kitchens. Jurisdictions or states may elect not to adopt certain articles of the NEC, as written. AFCI and GFCI articles are among those. Good topic, Bill.

donl

Might as well just GFI/AFI the entire house. There is nothing left now that does NOT require these! lol. Makes the code a lot simpler.

crookeddonald

Good explanation Sparky. I really appreciate your videos.

garydudgeon

I'm not sure what the NEC says, but I recommend putting mounted microwaves on their own circuits, and 20-amp if that's allowed. For some reason in this 70's house they put the kitchen lights and the microwave on the same 15-amp circuit, and it dims the lights every time the microwave is used, even LED bulbs somewhat. I have a 1200w modern microwave.
Edit: Oh I see you recommend the same! I posted this before finishing the video, lol.

Metalcastr

Almost seems that the people writing these codes have stocks invested in circuit breaker manufacturers. Looking at 210.8 (b), gfci protection in other than dwelling units, 125 and 250 volt receptacles 150 volts or less to ground. So what they're basically saying is a lot of 2 pole GFCI breakers will be sold.

However, let's say I have a NEMA 6-xx receptacle in one of the locations specified, and I'm using phase A -B in a 120/240V 3 ph 4w delta panel with B phase as the stinger leg. What that means is I'm not required to provide GFCI protection because one of the phases is 208V to ground, although the breaker must be a 240V straight rating. That's my interpretation, what are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments.

Sparky-wwre

Question when it comes to refrigerators. Most folks say no to GFI protection outlets for refrigerators because the compressors can draw a large amount of juice when kicking on. Some electrician's have put out that if your fridge is kicking off the GFI plug in a garage, put the GFI outlet in the next plug in the line (to protect the rest of the line, but not the fridge). I really couldnt find anything on that!!!! That lead me to thinking. Lets say you have a fridge in the garage and it's plugged into the first outlet in the line. The second outlet is a bathroom. The next outlet is an outside plug then two more outlets in the garage. If what this other electrician was saying accurate, the first outlet could be changed to a regular 15 amp outlet. The next on in series is the bathroom. Change that one from a regular 15 amp outlets to a 15 amp CGFI outlet to protect the bathroom and the rest of the circuit. So confusing!!!!

oshtoolman

A lot of times the GFCI on microwaves, ovens, dishwashers, and related devices, the recepticles are not easily accessible. If the GFCI trips on a dishwasher the homeowner would have to pull the device out to access the reset buttons. I have started to see these devices hardwired to eliminate the local GFCI and put a GFCI breaker instead.

normferguson

my inspector back in the early part of the century had a low bid electrician put in 15A circuits for over the range microwaves in a multifamily dwelling, and told him it was okay, because he was going to install 1000W microwaves. so he went microwave shopping that weekend, and found there was only one model of over the range microwave that it is legal to feed from a 15A circuit.

in my state, the specialty code allows fixed appliances to be fed from a non GFCI protected circuit in a dwelling unit. but that doesn't include countertop microwaves. it does include dishwashers, but I developed a habit of putting a faceless GFCI under the kitchen sink to serve as a local disconnect for the dishwasher - unless it's a cord connected model, in which case I can just put in a standard GFCI and safe off the wire that would feed a hardwired dishwasher.

kenbrown

Great info on the 2023 Code changes & requirements!
However, it is worth noting that:
Electrical device manufacturers (e.g. Leviton, Siemens, Schnieder/Sq-D, et.al.) all have VERY heavy input and influence into the NFPA-70's Code-making panels. Therefore it should come as no surprise that these companies would push the much more expensive devices to be "required" nearly everywhere. After all, if you can sell circuit breakers that cost $70 - instead of one's that cost $7 - which would you rather be trying to sell? (And it's doubtful they cost 10-times as much to manufacturer).
Just follow the money...
For some appliances - like a dishwasher or sink disposal - a GFCI recep' is not always easy enough to access in the event of a trip. Therefore, a GFCI-type breaker must be used... at 10-times the cost.
While GFCI's have been around quite awhile, and have become pretty reliable, AFCI's have not. The technology is still fairly fresh, and they still suffer from nuisance tripping - usually without any notable cause. They are also very sensitive to utility line surges (such as lightning) which can damage the circuitry and will cause them to nuisance trip even more.
I recently removed four such devices from my own residence - which all began randomly tripping following a thunder storm event in my area (a very common occurance here in my area of west Texas. We did not suffer any outage during the storm). Once the defective AFCI breakers were replaced... no more nuisance tripping (they were relpaced with standard breakers).
I have heard of electricians who will install the required AFCI breakers in a new construction house, simply to pass inspection, then will remove & replace them with standard breakers afterwards, just to eliminate endless trouble-calls from the new homeowner.
While the protection idea is wonderful, the reliability of the equipment designs and technology hasn't quite caught-up...

Calicostring

The people writing these codes have lost their minds. Fixed appliance that are properly grounded don’t pose a shock hazard. It seems to me the standard is moving to double and triple redundancy to prevent an event that may occur every 50 years. The cost/benefit relationship is no longer intact.

williamrucki

Hey Sparky. Good video. But sump pumps must be on GFCI? Seems like that is something you ALWAYS want to work and not be behind a prone-to-fail device like a GFCI. I wonder the reasons?

Don-pqgg

I can see how this plays out. The manufacturers on the technical committee need to raise revenues to meet their growth goals and secure their bonuses so they come up with all kinds of new expensive gizmos and justify their introduction in the name of safety. The installers on the committee argue that its going to add a huge costs but they can do cost plus and increase their revenues as well so, they go along with it. The underwrites on the committee reason, hell, if there is one less claim, sounds good to us. So, it gets approved and added to the next edition. They are all winners except, the consumer loses bigtime . The consumer always gets screwed. They used to have a panel filled with $6 breakers and now they have a panel filled with $50 breakers. The end-user notices no increase in performance and may even experience nuisance interruptions but they sure noticed the increase cost of the house.

williamrucki

Above the range microwaves or range hoods require a dedicated circuit. Must be GFCI protected if within 6 feet of a sink, or if 2023 code is in effect. Here in Florida we're on the 2020 code until 2026.

JeffBanfield-tv

I guess that I would need more explanation on the why on a few of those i.e. vending machines, microwaves, tire inflation machines. Should the requirement be for outdoor vending only? Microwaves generally aren’t working in “wet” exterior conditions. I just don’t understand.

garyprn