Atheist Asks HARD Question! IMPORTANT Answer!

#jesus #god #christian #atheist #apologetics
In this video Frank Turek from @CrossExamined answers a question from a skeptic, where he challenges Frank on the idea that God is an intelligent idea. This reveals an important “miss” by the skeptic that we dissect!

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[LawlessNate]

His argument is

1: The universe has a beginning

2: God's willingness to create the universe is eternal

3: God's willingness to create the universe is casually sufficient for the existence of the universe.

4: If the cause for something is sufficient and eternal then its effect should also be eternal

5: If the effect is eternal then it doesn't have a beginning

6: This would imply the universe both does and doesn't have a beginning

7: Therefore this is a contradiction

If he had paid closer attention to Dr. William Lain Craig then he wouldn't have been confused in this way. His issue is premise 4.

A quick summary of point 4 if you don't understand it, is that it basically states that if both the cause and the proper conditions for something to happen are past eternal then the effects will also be past eternal. He hinted at Dr. William Lane Craig's common example of past eternal water having always been at a sufficient temperature to freeze past eternally would mean that the water would have been frozen into ice since eternity past.

The premise is true but only for unguided processes; this is the whole point that Dr. Craig makes. An unguided process cannot refrain from producing its effect, but a personal cause is capable of refraining from producing its effect. The example Dr. William lain Craig often gives for this is a man sitting in a chair since eternity past. He has been sitting in that chair since eternity past, but whenever the man so decided he could simply stand up. The man standing is a non-eternal effect produced from a past eternal cause. As God is a personal being with agency rather than an unguided process, the effects He produces are not past eternal.

Really, this guy's reasoning can be used to make an argument against non-theistic explanations for the existence of the universe. The issue his reasoning points out isn't God, but rather unguided processes.

1: The universe has a beginning.

2: An impersonal, unguided process to create the universe is eternal

3: The impersonal, unguided process is casually sufficient for the existence of the universe

4: If the cause for something is eternal then its effect should also be eternal (true in this argument because it's not referring to a personal cause)

5: If the effect is eternal then it doesn't have a beginning.

6: This would imply the universe both does and doesn't have a beginning.

7: Therefore the cause of the universe cannot be an impersonal, unguided process.

[davidtrue]

He agreed that the universe had a beginning. The universe, in this argument, is not the known universe, but everything that exists on the natural level. This includes matter, space, and time. He therefore acknowledges that time had a beginning, so something had to cause it since time exists contingently. Whatever caused it had to be able to exist outside the realm of time, space, and matter, because it must have already existed logically prior to these in order to create time, space, and matter.

So, we already have the foundational conditions, he just doesn't want to call it God, even though the characteristics that logically follows is describing God.

[connerviolette]

Great video brother, continue bringing glory to the kingdom! Good analogies

[taxidermydavid]

The girl in charge of the microphone is my favorite. I enjoyed watching her reactions the most.

[loveanother]

God is real! He is outside of time, space, and matter. This is a dimensional world. This is what makes things like miracles possible. Humble yourself and be willing to understand then he will reveal himself to you trust him. Jesus Christ is the way truth and life. May God be with all. Praise Jesus Christ!

[onestepaway]

The Bible says time to us is not the same to God. Only things that have a beginning are subject to time.

[SushiCoding]

I've heard how we comprehend God is like this: If I am a 3D being and I press my finger on a 2D plane, a 2D being who encounters me will perceive me as a circle. I am MUCH MORE than a circle in 3D space but the 2D being can't comprehend that.

[SuperBriannajo]

How interesting in that many that don’t believe want to know God but yet reject the opportunity to know him through the greatest provision of all which is God himself through his Son .

[samroman]

I just wanted to say thank you for sharing and discussing this brother.

[socialsigh]

How can mortal men possibly comprehend an incomprehensible God? The need to feel special does not by default make us special.

[theriveroffaith]

When you look at megalithic structures you cannot conclude the people that built them were dumber than we are today. And therefore, you can't conclude they were made naturally over the process of millions of years, because their architecture was extremely complex.

The more complex and fined tuned something is, the higher the chance it was created by a designer and the lesser chance that it was randomly generated overtime.

You can't conclude the people who built the megaliths were dumber than we are today. Therefore you can't conclude things with even greater complexity and precision in nature were built by dumber processes than our intelligence capabilities today.

Also with random chance having no intelligence at all, then the chance that complex precision things (even in nature) were formed by random chance is scientifically lower than if they were designed by an intelligent being.

[Stevenwoodz]

You had me until you said iPhones all the way. Sounds like devil talk to me... Satan Apple got a hold on you... I'm going to pray for you brother 😂😂😂. #applecultisreal 😅😅😅

[guitarrens]

“Let’s talk afterwards”……….read “ oh fuck, he’s got me, I got to stop this discussion”

[KDG]

Wow the ant analogy is absolutely amazing. I never contemplated that in all my years

[JiraiyaSama]

You're the second person I've heard that reminded everyone that you have to approach the Bible with humility. Clay Jones described it as one having to approach it as if there's something wrong with the reader. Or lacking. And so forth. And that makes sense. If you're approaching it as though you know better, of course you'll reject the message.

[macmac]

People of all kinds please state if you are christian or muslim, atheists, agnostics or any combination of those and then if willing participate in the test. As well, looking for 5 good moral theist questions for atheists/agnostics.

#1 You see a child drowning in a shallow pool and notice a person just watching that is able to save the child with no risk to themselves but is not, is that persons non action moral?
#2 If you go to save the child, the man tells you to stop as he was told it was for the greater good, but he does not know what that is, do you continue to save the child?
#3 Is it an act of justice to punish innocent people for the crimes of others?
#4 If you were able to stop it and knew a person was about to grape a child would you stop it?
#5 Would you consider a parent who put their kids in a room with a poison fruit and told the kids not to eat it but then also put the best con artist in the room with the children knowing the con artist will get the kids to eat the fruit and the parent does nothing to stop it a good parent?

Who understands morality better, a person that can answer simple moral questions or a person that cant? Dont avoid the questions like a dishonest politician.

[HideyoshiR]

Great video! Loved the Pinocchio analogy. I’d also like to recommend reading the novel “Flatland”. It talks about dimensions and is a great starting point for how to think about God.

[Vandy]

I will GRANT this kid that fact that he is confused.

[shadowlazers]

Once Upon a Time the humans ants didn't understand disease they could never understand natural forces such as Lightning or how the Sun is warm they could never understand what causes storms can earthquakes in volcanic eruptions they could never understand that yet they evolved to be able to understand it

[drinkely]

Love the Pinocchio/geppetto analogy. I think it’s ultra hilarious how atheist, non believers or whatever folks want to call themselves who do not open there minds and believe in a creator can place an all knowing question on an educated theologian and when the person doesn’t have an answer for what God himself would only know, they say “ ahhhh we got em, now we can say there’s no God “ i mean i think this is what they seek. Hello people ! We are not God we don’t have all the answers. Furthermore I’m going to surprise you here….. YOUR SCIENTIST don’t either. I bet you are shocked half to death huh ?! Exercise some common sense and you may surprise yourself.