A Fallible List of Infallible Books?

Gavin Ortlund addresses whether the Protestant canon is a fallible list of infallible books.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is President of Truth Unites and Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Nashville.

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00:00 - Introduction
01:20 - Clarifying the Disagreement
05:12 - 1) A Logical Argument
08:35 - 2) A Historical Argument
18:48 - Summing Up

[thadofalltrades]

You have a gift for articulating complex ideas simply yet comprehensively.

[amberwishon]

Why do you not have a million followers? Seriously. Just found you during the whole best-seller book debacle and so glad I did!!!

[JW_______]

You're absolutely correct Dr. Ortlund, in my humble view! This video is really timely and appropo to the online RC, Orthodox, Protestant discussion.

[shelbyhurd]

You express yourself so eloquently and convey your thoughts in such an inspiring and delightful manner. As a young Christian, I truly admire you, especially for being openly Christian on social media and enduring so much criticism. I understand the plight. Keep going, brother. God is working through you to bring more people to Him. We're all cheering you on. Thank you for continuing to put yourself out there despite the intense backlash.

[YuDynasty]

Gosh, I miss R. C. Sproul. Thanks for expounding on his statement. We need the next generation of theologians that will carry the legacy of accessible teaching like Sproul.

[tayalollipop]

Thanks Gavin. As a Catholic, I do appreciate your videos and your charity. I think the main reason I was drawn to Catholicism after having been a protestant for so long is that when I read the church fathers I come away with an overwhelming sense that they truly believed in the real presence at the Eucharist and That they believed water baptism was necessary for salvation. This seemed to be the case all the way up to the reformation. Even reading the imitation of Christ by Thomas Kempis in the 1420’s you come away with just how much the church cherished the Eucharist. The body of Christ in the Eucharist was for the unity in the body of Christ. Are participation in the body of Christ was our participation in the body of Christ. Our communion with the body of Christ was also our communion with the members of Christ. That all changed at the reformation.


The second thing that troubles me is that Martin Luther was so ready to get rid of the book of James, Hebrews, Jude, and revelation, since he didn’t think they were as inspired as the rest of the books. He did include them as an 2nd Tier Cannon. Also adding the word “alone” in Romans 3:28 in his German translation to bolster his argument. That somewhat troubles me that the main protestant reformer is adding and subtracting from the established word of God.


Again, thank you for constant charity, even in the midst of sometimes less than Christian comments.

[raphaelfeneje]

God bless you immensely, Gavin Ortlund. Thanks for being a blessing to the Protestant side❤️✝️

[LiamRupprecht]

Thank you for all the work you have done on subjects like these. They have helped me find more secure footing in my beliefs.

[Science_explained]

Yay, Gavin! Can't wait to tune in!

[andrebmkt]

Gavin’s “whew” in the beginning was hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂

[inkman]

Gavin this helps so much!
I have been feeling so much angst and frustration about this exact topic!
Thank you so much!

[calebpearce]

It is my understanding that, even to this day, no mechanism of infallibility within Eastern Orthodoxy has ever defined the cannon of scripture.

At least the Catholics can appeal to Trent. But when Orthodox borrow the Catholic argument of needing an infallible act of an infallible church, it falls flat when that church has never acted infallibly on this matter.

Even more strange, I find, is when Catholics and Orthodox will team up on Protestants about the cannon even though the two of them have a different old testament cannon between them.

[Noah-]

Disillusioned, Joshua Schooping - Chapter 9, pg. 180
In other words, if there are reasons which show that the Scriptures are intrinsically authoritative, then those same reasons ought to induce us to agree that they are intrinsically authoritative. The Church's authority is thus shown to be extraneous in settling the matter. But if those arguments themselves depend upon the authority of the Church, then the authority of the Scriptures, i.e. their canonical status, is consequently shown to be dependent upon the Church's logically prior authority. This means the Church has elevated itself above God's Word in order to render Scripture authoritative, and not in a way based on rational considerations but on ecclesiological authority. For if there were arguments that would induce the canon to be known to the Church, then those same arguments ought to enable anyone to concur on the strength of those arguments, not bare authority, thus showing that the Church lends no formal authority to the authenticity of the canon.

But since the Word of God is by its very nature the self-attesting precondition of certain knowledge, as an inbreaking of the infinite mind and will of God, it does not depend upon any arguments from some other authority. Therefore, the Church itself must submit to the self-evidently authoritative nature of the Scriptures as the Word of God, otherwise they make god's Word dependent upon the testimony and word of the Church, which in doing the Church takes authority over God's Word and so makes the Creator's authority subservient to the creature's, which is absurd and blasphemous. Tragically, the Eastern Orthodox Presuppositionalist position, in asserting their hyper-ecclesiology, functionally denies the self-attesting and authoritative nature and status of God's Word.

[Carreknow]

This is exactly how I explained it to my family when we spoke on this subject. Infallible scripture put together by fallible men showing that God was in control the whole time.

[robertdelisle]

“You don’t need to be infallible to discern that which is infallible.”

[MichaelPetek]

The ultimate criteria for identifying books of divinely inspired Scripture is antiquity and general acceptance and liturgical use in all the churches. What Sproul maintained is that the unanimous judgement of the whole Church is never infallible, even if the all the churches rest and acquiesce in the judgement over a long period. In this he is contrary to Augustine's dictum "securus judicat orbis terrarum".

If God was guiding the Church in recognising which books are of divine authorship, then the Church is by the gift of God infallible in that recognition.

[ninjason]

I'm glad you made this video. The canon of scripture has been a difficult topic for me to handle as a protestant seeking historical roots of the Christian faith. I even hesitate to call myself a protestant considering I don't have anything against my Christian brethren in other traditions. But if I'm honest with myself I am kind of "protesting" because my conscience cant accept all the Marian dogmas, papal authority, purgatory, indulgences or venerating icons. I have been to a Catholic mass as well as Orthodox liturgy and while I do appreciate the reverence and beauty that is lacking in my local church if the priest or congregation told me to bow to/kiss an icon or pray towards a statue of Mary my conscience wouldn't allow it. Maybe my faith is weak or I'm just too stupid to understand the intricacies of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox theologies despite listening to dozens of hours of debates and hours of reading theology books. Your final statement regarding a lack of an infallible authority outside of scripture doesn't mean we cant have confidence to live the Christian life is good enough for me for now.

[Josephthetall]

A wonderful and much needed video! Thank you for addressing this and hopefully moving the discussion forward.

[theosophicalwanderings]

Excellent, this video is the end of the canon conundrum.

[michaelg]

God bless you Gavin! Thanks for the upcoming videos and your continued work in the Kingdom of God!