BW Live: Answering Leighton Flowers on John Piper's 2 Wills in God Calvinistic Theology

Leighton Flowers of Soteriology 101 is on a mission to refute Calvinists. Recently he posted a clip attempting to answer Calvinists who agree with John Piper on the 2 wills of God.

In this episode of Beginning of Wisdom Live, I’ll be evaluating Flowers’ arguments about judicial hardening and his charge that Calvinists are illegitimately generalizing on specifics, among other things. Is Calvinism truly built on such a flimsy foundation?

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[regandanielle]

Dr Leighton Flowers is the only hope I have in the Bible not being a contradiction and his channel was an answer to many tear-filled prayers and confusion that I’m left with after reading Piper’s attempt to answer the problems that Calvinism brings up

[fredarroyo]

Definitely see Ephesians 1:11 from a non causally determined view. " Works all things according to the counsel of his will" just means God meticulously and exhaustively controls everything is definitely a jump. I see it as this: Everything that happens guided and influenced and directed towards God purpose, which includes some things He causaually determines, but not that everything is meticulously and exhaustively causaually determined.

[SabastianDuke]

You’re completely off in this. Calvanism is a horrible twisting of scripture. I’ve enjoyed your work on other topics but you accusing flowers of making fallacious arguments while you yourself make horrid fallacious arguments is not a good look.

I have an idea.

Debate leighton.

[fredarroyo]

Definitely see Jesus being the author and perfecter of our faith from a non causally determined view. I see it like this. Michael Jordan has a great basketball style. Even Kobe Bryant emulated Jordans style. Michael Jordan was the author and perfecter of that basketball style and Kobe emulated it. It doesn't mean Michael Jordan causaually determined Kobes style to begin and be shaped and perfected like His style. Definitely see a imposing of causal determination on this verse

[fredarroyo]

Definitely don't see Genesis 50:20 as God causaually determining and moving the brothers to do evil against Joseph. Again just imposing that in the text instead of letting it speak for itself..I see it like this. Joseph's brothers self determined their evil actions against Joseph and God, working this according to His purpose, planned the brothers self determined evil actions against Joseph for good..not that He moved and causaually determined the brothers to do evil against Joseph
.

[SabastianDuke]

I’m currently working, but when I get home I will be thoroughly addressing your points.

[maxxhyatt]

I started watching this channel a year ago hoping to find something related to Torah keeping due to people in my life are starting to keep it. I’ve been well pleased with most of your videos Andrew. As much as i disagree with Calvinism I have lost people coming to my bible study’s due to they just don’t want talk about it bc every time it comes up it is mostly a long heated debate. There is a reason Paul tells Timothy in 2 Timothy 2 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. We can talk about the meaning of this verse later but There is a reason y Paul tells Timothy that he must teach with meekness and have patience if u are a servant of the lord. Meaning ALL PEOPLE not just counting Andrew here u guys. Love you guys God bless

[regandanielle]

“The biblical contrast to Piper’s Two-Wills view can best be summarized as: 1) God’s morally perfect will, and 2) God’s consequent will. God’s morally perfect will is what God desires as a perfect ideal without sin’s corruption. God’s consequent will is what God wills in light of human freedom, rebellion and sin.
We see this distinction all over scripture! For example God’s perfect will is that husbands and wives not be divorced. God’s perfect will is that none perish, but all be saved. But given human sin and rebellion God’s perfect will cannot always be achieved. Thus God accommodates Himself to our fallen state and consequently wills to allow divorce despite the fact that in His perfect will He would desire there be no divorce. Similarly God, in light of human rebellion, wills to save only those who repent and believe in the truth, despite His perfect will of desire that all people come to a knowledge of the truth and be saved. One of the clearest scriptural affirmations of God’s perfect will is found in Romans 12:2. There Paul says,
“Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.”
This passage is remarkable in that it makes our discernment and obedience to God’s perfect will contingent on our choice to reject conformity to this age. We can say it is God’s perfect will that we reject conformity to the world and be renewed in our minds, “so that” we can live in a right knowledge of God’s perfect will. However not all Christians remain in God’s perfect will to reject conformity to the world. But that is not an evidence of Piper’s alleged “will of decree” that assumes God predetermined that such Christians remain conformed to this world bogged down in all their “predetermined… besetting sins.” Rather it is an evidence of God’s consequent will to allow human beings the free exercise of their will against His perfect will—even if it is to their own detriment.
Understanding God’s two wills in this way provides a complementary approach whereas Piper’s view collapses into undeniable conflict and contrariety. For in Piper’s view God actively works against the fulfillment of His own perfect will— such as His desire that all be saved or that followers of Christ not be conformed to this age. The only way Piper can avoid the charge of conflict and contrariety is to concede that God’s “will of command” is disingenuous, artificial posturing on the part of God. God never really intends for people to obey His commands. If God did, He would not actively seek to undermine His own intentions by sovereignly and irresistibly decreeing each and every violation against His own divine commands!”

[John.]

What do you think of this video? (in reply)

[pateunuchity]

Leighton Flowers has not only employed fallacies in order to exploit arguments, he also makes up fallacies such as the “boogeyman fallacy”. Thanks for opening up the books on someone known to support the heresy of Pelagianism in various forms.

[JohnQPublic]

How about you show everybody what a gigantic powerhouse of an intellect you are and invite yourself to a live debate with Dr. Flowers instead of all the back ally ankle-biting when he's not around?

[regandanielle]

Piper DOES teach that God decrees every bad thing that happens. Have you not read his articles?

[carmensiekierke]

John Piper is a "New Calvinist." He is part of the "Young, Restless, and Reformed" movement that began with a conference in 2006 ( John Piper, Mark Driscoll, and Matt Chandler).
These "New Calvinists" are not theologically like the Old Calvinists. John Piper's "Christian" Christian. John Piper also believes in " final justification"...in by justification, but you must stay in by works. Yes, similar to Roman Catholicism. Most of the New Calvinists are charismatics who have added the " doctrines of grace" to their Baptist beliefs.

Dr. R. C. Sproul explained God's two wills better than John saying.