Why Did Gandalf Fear Sauron If They’re Both Maiar?

It might seem strange that two beings of the same created "order" would have extremely different power levels, but there are at least four reasons why one Maia (Sauron) might be more powerful than another (say, Gandalf).

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[dmgroberts]

Sauron was a Maia of the forge. Gandalf is a Maia of compassion. Sauron's power is inherently mighty and impressive, and aimed at control and domination. Gandalf's power is subtle and quiet, aimed at comforting others and reinforcing their own positive qualities. Sauron makes volcanos explode, collapses mountains, and spreads massive storm clouds over the sky. Gandalf enables the good and virtuous to be brave and resist their negative impulses. Sauron beats people down. Gandalf props them up.

Sauron does DPS, Gandalf does support buffs.

[stephenleggett]

To me, it has always felt like Gandalf had passed some test when he fell to the Balrog, showing he could be trusted with more of his natural power, without taking over in some form, for his own sake or "for the good of others". I imagine the nerves of the Valour as they decided they needed to send more, super powerful, beings into a world they did not want to directly interfere with, to combat one of there own already doing just that, justifiably so, as Saruman proved.

[robertstrawser]

Great video. Two things to mention. Firstly another reason why Sauron is more powerful is that he doesn’t have to play by the rules. Saruman decided to chuck the rule book out the window and defeat Sauron by building his own armies and stealing the One Ring. For instance Gandalf, likely, could have destroyed the Witch-King but he knew that was not his fate.

Secondly, Gandalf was not sent back by the Valar. He would have said that he passed into the West, from whence he came, and was returned to fill his mission. Passing into the West and the existence of the Valar was no secret. In fact he has no problem at all with talking about the West. But, in this case he is evasive. He talks of passing out of time completely and that’s not Valinor. Time still passes in the Undying Land just as fast as everywhere else. He was pulled completely out of Arda to the Halls of Eru and got a power boost from Illuvatar himself. Gandalf the Grey was weaker because, as a Maiar, he was one of the lesser ones. Gandalf the White was jacked up to a power level comparable with Sauron or at least Sauron without the Ring. I think this isn’t just a reduction of the inhibitions of his incarnate form, I think this is a reflection of a boost to him as a Maiar. He recalls being Olorin, in his youth, but now he is something more. It makes sense because, although Melkor was far more powerful, Manwe was the closest to Eru in thought. Gandalf was Manwe’s choice so he was, indirectly, Illuvatar’s choice as well.

[wheatgrowssweet]

Sauron influences men through fear, Sauruman influences through secrets and lies, Gandalf influences men through kindling hope.

[thebrotherskrynn]

Olorin truly embodies what I once heard someone say about praying; 'pray not for what your deity could do for you, but for him or her to inspire in you the ability to help yourself' or something to that effect. Olorin truly is the best of the Maiar for embodying this belief (well him and Melian are my favourites!).
Great explanation as always.

[likestarsatdawn]

Melkor also took on corruption as one of his themes in the song of the Ainur. This meant that he and his people possessed the power to twist illuvatar's creations. This is probably one of the only powers that would be truly terrifying to an immortal being like a Maiar. Gandalf was extremely tempted by the ring, and if he had taken it he would have been twisted like Sauron, who was to Maiar as orcs are to elves.

[BerniniFan]

Orodruin or Mount Doom was created by Morgoth (one of the many things he vested his power in) and is simply a power resource he left behind in Arda, akin to a battery. Sauron was able to tap into that resource by forging the One Ring in its fires, but only by pouring his own spirit into it could Sauron then access that power left behind my Morgoth. Gandalf was aware of this and knew well that he was no match for Sauron, especially when in possession of his ring. So tied to the one ring was Sauron, he was able to draw power from it although not being in possession of it. Which is why Mount Doom erupted upon the ring’s destruction in its fires, much like a massive energy surge would explode a battery.

[istari]

Great video. I think it is worth bringing up a few things that happened when Gandalf first met Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn. When Gimli mistook Gandalf for Saruman and threatened him, Gandalf leapt to the top of a large rock. This would be another indication that his body might have looked aged but could act as though it were much younger and stronger.
Later, Gandalf says to Gimli "'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord." I take this to mean Gandalf's abilities were restored to close to what they were as a maia.
When I read Gandalf's description of what happened after he died, he uses the phrase "and I strayed out of thought and time." I take this to mean that he did not actually return to Valinor but that Eru Ilúvatar intervened and took Gandalf to his timeless halls.
Thoughts?

[earlwajenberg]

Another indication that Gandalf the White was still incarnate is when, on the ride with the Rohirrim, Merry, and Pippin from Orthanc, when they stop that night and Pippin steals the palantir, he's able to do that because Gandalf is _asleep_. If Gandalf simply didn't need sleep any more, why would he when he had the palantir to guard and could use the quiet time to plan or change the spark plugs on his staff or whatever? At a minimum, he could relieve one of the Rohirrim watchmen of guard duty. Why sleep when you don't have to when there's a war on?

[jkdbuck]

Of the Istari, he was the only one who feared Sauron and had a healthy respect for his power. Cirdan saw that and gave him the Fire Ring.

[davidbooth]

Something about the power levels of Melkor/Morgoth and Sauron. They both were significantly more power at their creation than their defeat. In both cases it was their fault for similar reasons.

Melkor at the point of time that Middle Earth was first finished, could have crushed any Elf, Vala, Maia, human or any other living thing excepting Eru.

Sauron, when he first joined Melkor, could have easily crushed most elves, most Maia, humans and most other creatures.

The major reason for Melkor's depowering is that he invested much of is power in the corruption of living things, dragons, orcs, etc and the powering up certain Maia that became balrogs. He invested so much power in his creations/corruptions that by the time of the War of Rath, his power was a shadow of his previous strength and still gave the Vala and Maia a lot of trouble and restructured the entirety of Middle Earth geography. All battles where he is bested is after a major part of his power has already been invested in his corruptions. I include the burning of him that was done by the Silmarils.

Sauron seems to have been more slowly depowered as his rebellion against Eru and the Vala continued.
The Silmarillion expressly states that Sauron was fearful of his existence at the drowning of Numenor and that his ability to shapeshift was taken from him at this time, possibly by Eru. The greatest loss of power occurred when forged the One Ring and imbued much of his power into it. While creating the one ring the One Ring seems to have given him greater power in some ways, it seems to have weakened him in others. One specific weakness appears, to me, to be the loss of protection of his body during combat allowing his defeat and the cutting off of his finger.

When he lost his ring his power was further reduced, taking him longer to recover his power and command his orcs and Nazgul. He was still likely more powerful than the Istari, but not nearly as powerful prior to the One Ring's creation.

So yeah, Sauron is more powerful that most of the Maiar, could have crushed any of the Astari when Melkor lived. By the time of the War of the RIng, was still powerful, but not as powerful as Melkor lived. Likely could have still crushed any of the Istari in a direct confrontation with a single Astari.

So Gandolf gets to meet a stronger foe, with a significantly weakened Elven population, dwarves that are nearly non-existant and weak men, susceptible corruption. Yeah, I would have been scared. too.

[causticamore]

I really like this, you break it down in a way that’s not too analytical/mechanistic but does get into the weeds of who is more powerful and why.

I do think there is another reason - Ainur are all aspects of Illuvatar and unique beings. Melkor’s aspect was pure power - the ability to not just shape, but to nearly obliterate Arda if he chose. However, he’s surprisingly weak in other ways. He doesn’t seem to have much (if any) gift of foresight. He was repeatedly tricked by Elves and is completely surprised by the War of Wrath.

One of my favorite Ainur is Melian. Most would say Melian is a ‘weak’ Maia - she leaves Valinor, falls in love with an Elf, guards a beautiful realm, and then peace’s as soon as Elu dies.

But IMO Melian was not weak, not at all. It’s just that her aspect was love, the deepest most passionate love for the Elves, love so powerful that she incarnated herself as an Elven figure and single-handedly protected Doriath for hundreds of years. Not even Sauron at his full power could pierce the Girdle. Her foresight might only be second to Mandos or Ulmo - she knows almost exactly what will happen in the First Age.

So why does she leave? Her aspect was not to love ‘Elves’ in general - she loved, with every iota of her power, one Elf in particular. She poured all of her power and love and wisdom into his kingdom. When he died, her power faded - he was her ‘Ring’, if we want to use that metaphor.

However, again, Melian is crazy powerful. She *knew* Thingol would die, but she loved him anyways - and loved him so deeply that she could no longer survive without him. She did not abandon Doriath - her power was broken.

Of course, she did not die, her spirit went back to Valinor. But her legacy lives on in her descendants as an example of choosing love over immortality - a choice that they will have to make for themselves. Her aspect was love - to bridge the gap between the Maia and the Elves, and then between Elves and humans

[Diegoromir]

Excellent video, just want to help complement the difference in power between the Ainur. As you said and it is excellently put on The Red Book channel, the Ainur were not equal in power, even among the Valar there were the most powerful, the Aratar...

From the Tolkien Gateway website:

"Aratar or Máhani (Val. māchanumāz) were the High Ones of Arda, the greatest of the Valar: Manwë, Varda, Ulmo, Yavanna, Aulë, Mandos, Nienna and Oromë. Though Manwë was held to be the High King of Arda, the Eight were held in equal reverence, and were said to possess a majesty that surpassed even the other Valar. The Aratar were originally nine, and included Melkor. He was removed from this 'order' after his rebellion."

In the case of Sauron, Gandalf and the other Istari:

In a footnote to Letter 183, Tolkien says that Sauron was "of the same kind [i.e., the Maia] as Gandalf and Saruman, but of a far higher order."

So Sauron was not just of a "higher order" relative to Gandalf and Saruman, but of a "far higher order.", no wonder why Gandalf feared him.

Indeed there were differences in power between the Maiar as between the Valar. But it would not be the most important thing that the Istari were more powerful than Sauron, as the original idea was not to face him by force (since The Powers knew the consequences of this in ages past), but to inspire the free peoples so that they oppose him. At least Gandalf was considered the wisest of all the Maiar.

So it would be something like this, in my opinion: Melkor > Aratar > the other Valar > High Order Maiar > the other Maiar

Namarië.

[DrillForAbsentee]

Interesting commentary! I think your third point really nailed it. We know that at the end of the first age, after Morgoth has been defeated, Sauron is ordered to return to Valinor to face justice for his role. We are told he doesn’t go back in large part because he doesn’t want to forfeit the immense power that he gained by being in the league with Morgoth. Simply put, other Maia had not been given extraordinary extra power from the Valar that they served in the way that Morgoth empowered Sauron. This is why he is so much more powerful than Gandalf.

[joseraulcapablanca]

This as ever is good stuff. However I always feel that Gandalf feared most what he himself would do. He was an inspirational leader, and like a captain who must go down with his ship, he would be always in a position which demands that he should sacrifice himself, even knowing that he had a higher purpose. Going into Moria he knew his life could be spent in the defence of the fellowship. A meeting with Sauron would be an impossible choice for him. Also he knew that no being can pass the test alone. He feared his failure, might like Frodos failure be an abandonment of duty. Thanks and keep up the good work.

[malcolm]

I always interpreted Gandalf's return with greater power as Eru assigning him the role that Saruman abandoned. Basically, Saruman got fired and Gandalf was promoted to his position.

[danieldeclue]

I always saw it as of course not all maiar are created equal. Always figured that to ask why Gandalf is less powerful than Sauron would be the same thing as asking why The Innkeeper Barton butterbur isn't as powerful as Aragorn. Some maiar are far more dangerous than others. Some of them have relatively innocent and inconsequential gifts, while some of them have earth-shattering abilities at their disposal. It's why radagast, being a maiar could never beat a balrog

[grahamedwards]

From across the pond - thanks so much for that - it was genuinely very interesting and answered several questions I’ve been carrying around with me for 50yrs. Brilliant stuff.

[lauriallantorni]

I like the honest way you explain things. With Tolkiens books we cant speak with total "scientific" like certainty in most things. Many people talk as if there were rules in stone(there are but not so many nor so clear), you dont do that, and i thank you for it.

[SnakeWasRight]

What rich lore Tolkein has provided and such deep analysis provided here, thank you