Negative Shadow of the Erdtree Review - Elden Ring

This video talks about the issues with the Shadow tree fragments and the final boss.

[griegomas]

Final boss should have been Consort Patches.

[RevanX]

I think that Radahn is a symptom, not a cause. By which I mean the reason behind why people are dissatisfied with him is absolutely all over the DLC. That reason being that the DLC has almost zero integration with the main game.

There is zero mention of Messmer anywhere in the base game. When people first heard about Rellana, they thought that it was a joke. The Scadutree and the Divine Gate and the veil over the lands are neither explained nor brought up anywhere in the Lands Between. In the vast majority of the new lore, we are adding complications rather than elaborations, with just a few exceptions.

The base game did not hint at any sort of connection between Miquella and Radahn outside of the fact that Malenia fought him, which was the subject of rampant speculation. On the flipside of the coin, the DLC barely, if at all, touches on anything Miquella was doing in the base game. The Haligtree is not mentioned once. Malenia is only referred to by proxy as the mother of the forager brood and is only mentioned by name in the description of Radahn's armor. The Eclipse or what it was for is never mentioned despite Godwyn's Death Knights being present and on a completely inscrutable quest. You can have Miquella's Needle in your head and it goes unnoted. You can wear Miquella's tiara to Malenia's boss fight or her own armor to Radahn's boss fight and nobody says a word. You can have the Flame of Frenzy in you and Midra doesn't change at all, and you are still referred to as a Lord of the Old Order or of the Erdtree or of Marika by everybody. There's no explanation of whether or not the body in the cocoon is even Miquella. There isn't even a cutscene for entering the DLC, you just go through a loading screen and zone in.

I've heard people, including you, say that the Godwyn stuff was always wishful thinking in the vein of Velka from DS1. Well to me the much more apt comparison to DS1 is Sif. If you went and did Artorias of the Abyss first and save Sif, then Sif's cutscene actually reflected that in the base game. To me that reflects a level of care which is so often absent from Elden Ring. In a lot of ways this DLC is the most polished and finely crafted piece of content FromSoft has ever put out, but it's also missing the polish and craft that I would most care about.

[Witness]

I wish that the whole part of Miquella abandoning his flesh to ascend to godhood had ended with him placing his soul into Godwyn tobecome something beyond both life and death and really show the horror of his charm magic making people love a literal corpse

[LordDenning_]

I just think the Miquella aspects of the DLC were the least compelling. Everything relating to Marika and Messmer and the Hornsent was much more compelling.

[iamdoom]

I think if Radahn was the penultimate final boss that leads into a more original conclusion that people would have found that moment easier to swallow

[bdaniels]

Not sure why they didn’t just actually do it like Sekiro and attach the fragments to boss fights including side and mini bosses. At least the reasons for clearing dungeons would’ve been universal.

[DJosephRivas]

you can't throw in Song of the Ancients and expect to to listen to anything else thats going on. 10/10 review i'm sure

[chandlerholloway]

I feel like after defeating Miquella and Radahn, he would at least say something? I thought it was weird there wasn’t any dialogue upon defeat, and then the cutscene is just a flashback and then… that’s it. That’s the end to this epic dlc? I still appreciate that cutscene lore-wise but it just felt off and didn’t stick the landing for me. Would have been interesting if the Tarnished did certain things or collected specific items like the Three Thirds Cords in Bloodborne, then we could walk through the Divine Gateway ourselves and leave it open to that. Still a great expansion.

[kadomaix]

Radahn’s story; from all of his lore we were given before and after the festival, to the festival itself was incredible and so well portrayed in the base game. The way that warriors from around the lands between gathered together to celebrate his life by giving him the honorable death on the battlefield the he deserved was near perfection. He is legendary. He didn’t need to have a place in the dlc, because his tale was already told.

[Plight_]

God damn the fight with Miquella's faithful was amazing though. A blood bath of everyone turning on each other fighting for what they believe is right. One of my favorite fights in the game for its lore alone

[alephnole]

Before I even watch this.

From a lore perspective this dlc answered NOTHING.
None of the questions I had going in where answered.

All the bosses where just random people that came out of nowhere with zero reference in the base game.

I don't even has an issue with the final boss being what it was, but it still came out of nowhere.

Gameplay wise it's mostly good, but they weren't lying when they said they pushed the limits of what people and tolerate.

Biggest complaint is that 90% of the open world despite being very pretty has no new enemies or even a good variety of old enemies.

It's just shadow villagers and death birds in almost every new region/biome and nothing else outside legacy dungeons.

[Jim]

Finding the Death Knight Armor set gave me so much hope man

[epruno]

In the base game, Radahn presentation was amazing. The cutscene with the voice acting, the build up to the once strongest of the demigods, the overwhelming (at first) battle with the possibility to summon multiple allies on a full battlefield. I feel like it was a bad idea to bring him back. I can't help but compare the new version to the previous amazing fight. Worst, he was mad with rot, then we freed him, only for him to become a puppet zombie...

[SkorBn]

I think that as a final boss, Radahn didn't fit the existing lore. Sure, Miyazaki pulled a bait and switch with Radahn and Godwyn, but it doesn't really work because of how Godwyn was built up.

For example, it is established in Fia's questline that Godwyn isn't dead, but rather that his soul can't reincarnate into the erdtree- which is why deathblight is so problematic, because it's the reintroduction of actual death in a world where death has still been removed.

Because of this, Fia- as a deathbed companion- sleeps with Godwyn so that he can be reborn via the mending rune.

Furthermore, in Castle Sol and the Golden Epitath suggest that Miquella and Godwyn were close, which makes sense because Godwyn was akin to a sun, lightning, and gold deity via the Eclipse.

Now in the DLC, we find out that Radahn promised to be Miquella's consort under a certain condition, most likely death, but this doesn't make sense. Not because it simply doesn't, but because there was no indication that Miqulla and Radahn spent time with each other. Whereas its made clear that Godwyn and Miquella were close, which made some believe that Godwyn was Miquella's first choice, Radahn second.

But that isn't right either. The game is trying to demand that we believe Radahn was Miquella's first choice, which wouldn’t make sense because Miquella's whole thing was making the impossible possible. Miquella created the Haligtree from his own blood, rivaling the erdtree- he blocked the outer god of rot from hurting Malenia, he accepted the rejected of Marika's order within his group. It also tarnishes this very character: the only demigod that was actually good for mankind is instead another person hungry for power, using any means necessary to obtain it-- which includes cursing mohg, ordering Malenia to kill Radahn- which lead to the nuking of all of Caelid, and that everyone that had ever loved Miquella was under his spell. Sure, his charms were brought into question and was definitely a villainous trait to be introduced, but with the DLC, Miquella was essentially the worst of them all. And unlike Ranni, whose character was shafted due to the mistranslation of her ending, Miquella is just another horrible person we must face.

Worst of all, people have begun to speculate that the night of the black knives was because of Miquella now. Specifically, Godwyn's death, which was bound to happen because of the lore this messes with during the DLC.

Godwyn would’ve made more sense because of all these issues. Miquella, desperate to save his brother, charmed as many as he could to bring him back as his consort. Rather than suggesting that some of the worst atrocities being because of Miquella's desire for a consort- his helpful nature wants to save everyone, including Godwyn. It would’ve made more sense for the deathblight that ate away at Godwyn to do the same as Miquella, much how we all speculated that Mohg would corrupt Miquella.

"Godwyn, Prince of Death" or "Godwyn, the Duskborne" would have been perfect for Miquella. In Miquella's journey, he finally managed to create bring Godwyn back, but the deathblight ate away at them both, maybe not leaving shells of their former selves- but rather both of them embrace natural death, or deathblight. Miquella's order is not only one of compassion, but one where death is properly restored.

Is Radahn okay when you piece together the lore? Yes and no, it's not just about perspective but also about that it can only really make sense when you ignore the connections that are clearly Godwyn and Miquella (such as Castle Sol, that speaks of Godwyn and his Eclipse, holding a medallion to the haligtree). But perhaps more connections that weren't just retconned (like the Golden Epitath) or just added (like the battle of caelid) in the future.

[pattymikeb]

My biggest issue with final boss is that we already fought Radahn in a super special and cinematic way in the main game. I want a final boss to be shocking and unique, ala Orphan of Kos or Manus. It cheapens the Radahn Festival for me and was an awkward note to end the DLC with.

[mac]

The biggest issue with the story of the DLC is even after defeating Miquella, we aren't presented with any new ending, or meaningful story bits that sows everything together. You beat the boss, and are given a cutscene that doesn't tell you anything you havent figured out urself by doing the side quests in Shadow. It's disappointing and there are still loose ends that probably won't be tied up unless they are cooking another DLC

[BotBoy-unpz]

You know the souls fanbase has turned into a cult when you need to preface any criticism with a preemptive "I think it's amazing, 10/10 and the best thing ever" before you say anything negative.

[Birbucifer]

BOSS SPOILERS:









what really disappointed me was a lack of cutscenes for important bosses. bug lady and ESPECIALLY rellana deserved cutscenes. avatar, finger momma and bayle didn't need them tho, they were cinematic enough

[SkullK---ht]

When it was revealed that miquella took mohg's body for the ritual I was expecting a more grotesque final boss, i think radahn looks too perfect and should have more mohg features

[AeneasReborn]

Cerulean coast and its accompanying red flower area were both needlessly empty and absolute slogs that showed the worst of the flaws of open world in the souls formula