Battery-Powered Transit — Is It Overrated?

Many transit agencies have started to push for battery-powered transit as a way to advertise their "eco-friendly" public transit offerings, but this is a misguided way of thinking and a bad way to spend capital — let's talk about why.

Map Data © OpenStreetMap contributors

[papyrussemi]

Greener trains are better than non-greener trains, but any trains is better than no trains.

[marcniklass]

I'm a driver for Erixx, who is running brand-new battery electric trains in northern Germany's regional service. (The one on the thumbnail) While there are ecological reasons, which predominantly are voiced in politics and to our passengers, another big reason to electrify the trains and not the routes, which were run with diesel, is to safe the money for the electric infrastructure and fuel costs.
The entire contract for the trains and their maintenance costed 600m € and lasts for 30 years. Each year, 10m liter of diesel are saved. Of course, the electric energy has a price too, but ultimately it is a price thing.

[SamuelClemens-oq]

Hybrid buses make a lot of sense for mid-tier transit systems. They are more fuel efficient, quieter at roll out, take great advantage of the stop/start nature of city driving, and are a bridge to a future transit system that is electrified via overhead lines.

Additionally, the efficiency gains from hybrid motors means that their service life is far greater than combustion-only vehicles.

[jacekwesoowski]

Here in Warsaw there's a certain section of the electorate that complains a lot whenever there's a new tram, bus or a even a new stop (the noise! the smell! those horrible POOR PEOPLE who ride trams and buses!), but if you told them the next trams you'll buy are going to be fusion-powered, they would all over it, enthusiastically celebrating how we're so very modern and ahead of the curve.

[moneycash-]

You could argue however that people's perception is just as important. If a large transit agency has electric vehicles, other companies and agencies will follow, and people will feel like the journey they are making out of their cars is more worthwhile for reducing carbon emissions. But yes, focus on good service before electric service. London UK, where I live, already has great transport service, so electrification seems like a reasonable next step.

[jatekvege]

I live in Riga, Latvia. There we have the same problem, our government is taking electric busses with burning of interest eyes. But frequency of service in most cases is not even better than before, but worse, because of that old reliable low-floor diesel buses are scrapped or donated to other countries. Same with trolleybuses, Riga has an incredible trolleybus network, but it's begging for repairs, and in some cases overhead wires just exist, but due to the poor of it condition trolleybuses run on diesel or hydrogen generators. So in the end instead of more reliable service and repaired existing infrastructure we have a couple of electric buses, that's all.

[ft]

Since the Thumbnail pictures a German BEMU I think it’s only fair to point out that they’re actually pretty awesome. As of recently the only somewhat capable DMU you could buy for the German network was the Alstom Lint. Obviously the best option is always to electrify the line, however, resources are limited. Over here there’s plenty of services that operate on electrified lines for much of their journey but due to just a small gap that most likely won’t be fixed within the next 10-15 years due to other projects taking priority (and rightfully so) they have to be operated by DMUs for the entire journey. So it’s essentially the trolley bus situation you pointed out. In these cases BEMUs are just objectively a much, much better solution than DMUs: They accelerate faster, are much quieter, use the existing wires for as much as possible and provide a better user experience. They’re not even all that much more expensive since you get to pick between several different manufacturers whereas the DMU market is effectively monopolized. I wouldn’t even be surprised if these end up being cheaper to operate than DMUs. Not to mention: Those are mostly off the shelf EMU‘s but fitted with battery packs. So there’s still an incentive to electrify as that will allow you to get rid of those batteries but you can keep using the train.

[FemboyTrain]

Where I work we replaced most of our diesel trains with battery electric ones (Siemens Mireo Plus B) and now have more trains and run more services thanks to them. So it can work out in the right places

[maslelviz]

My city Vilnius has a pretty robust trolley bus network. This year they bought a sizable fleet upgrade. They purchased vehicles that can use both overhead wires and built in batteries. Now they ordered a study on how to "efficiently remove" the overhead wires from the city centre🤦‍♂️. Apparently people hate the look of it....

[spych]

Even if it’s not greener, it feels cleaner. This has been apparent for more than a century, and it’s where the votes and riders are!

[mfbfreak]

Before having even watched this - no, it is not overrated. West Germany operated battery powered rail buses on former diesel branch lines from the 60s all the way through the 90s, with the so called 'Pot bellied pig' trains. They had huge lead acid batteries that caused a visible sag in the frame. Even with that much heavier and less efficient old tech, for 30 years or more they ran them in regular service. AFAIK there were even earlier battery electric rail buses. If they can do it for 30 years with horribly outdated tech, we should absolutely be able to do it today.
You do have to use vehicles that are suitable to the conditions. The above mentioned were running on flat terrain and short hauls, with their maintenance station nearby where they were charged overnight like a fork lift. If you're running them with air conditioning, that'll draw a LOT of power, you might want to install a contact shoe system at every station so at least at the station stops, the entire train will run on 'shore power' and it can charge a bit.
Let's also not forget hybrid systems. Diesel electric is only a battery and a charging system away from hybrid.
However, it must be seen as a way to electrify lines that could otherwise not be electrified. Overhead power is still more efficient and you don't have the issues with pollution from mining the raw materials for batteries, and their expensive recycling process in case of lithium.

[steelfabric]

Sydney's Parramatta Light Rail is partly battery powered. Some of the line has overhead wires, which drives the LR and charges the batteries, and part of the line has no overhead wires and is powered by the batteries. Not having overhead wires is visually pleasing, which is a benefit. The downside is yet to be determined, but may include battery fires and higher cost when the batteries need replacing. Time will tell. This line is still undergoing testing and hasn't entered service yet.

[eggballo]

The environmental impact of diesels and even steam locomotives is actually quite miniscule when compared to things like plastic, road vehicles, and deforestation.

[JHZech]

As a rider though, I appreciate electric buses not having fumes, being quieter, and having a smoother ride. The first two also apply to electric rail. If old buses or diesel trains are being retired anyway, why not buy a battery electric model? If you're already buying new vehicles, I see no reason to buy diesel nowadays.

[nolanpick]

Washington DC seems to be going for natural gas powered buses to reduce pollution, touting them as “clean”. I’d much rather have that as an intermediary than reduced service with electric buses.

[kotiksae]

Trolleybuses with a backup battery are a good solution for a lot of situations.
For example, my city has quite frequent power outages which means electricity in overhead lines also disappears. So trolleys stop and people get either into cars/taxis or into minibuses. Recently my city has bought and tested new autonomous trolleys - they also look cool as hell.

[dkelly]

I see North America’s reliance on battery over catenary as just another gadgetbahn-type phenomenon. We can’t actually just install the same infrastructure (catenary) used everywhere else so we have to come up with a unique, overengineered solution to a problem that’s more politically suitable to NIMBY stakeholders and intransigent freight rail operators who dislike the idea of wires over “their” tracks.

[rogersexton]

Thank you Reece for an excellent video! The problem in Britain, where I live, is that Diesel power has been demonised. To attract people back on to pubic transport it has to be electrified. However, 'Good old-fashioned poles and wires' are seen as too expensive. So the future of buses in Britain has (unfortunately) to be batteries. (Hydrogen is too expensive to manufacture, and difficult to store, )

[themeparkgod]

The station in the Thumbnail is my local station: Lübeck Central and we're on the best way to become a 100% Zero Emission station with following lines: Lübeck-Hamburg-(Munich) (Electrified), Lübeck-Kiel (Stadler FLIRT 3 battery, maybe electrification in the future), Lübeck-Bad Kleinen-Stettin (electrification wip), new highspeed line wip, Lübeck-Travemünde (Electrified), Lübeck-Lüneburg (Stadler FLIRT 3 battery, maybe electrification in the future)

[zeugundso]

Depending on local legistlation going directly electric maybe the cheapest mid- to long term option. Since in many countries there are either future costs on CO2 emissions or subsidies for the purchase of electric vehicles going with "cheap but plenty" diesel options may only help in the short term while hampering future electric deployment. Personally I also have to say that I'm much more open to use the bus now since then new electric buses are just so much nicer. Would be interesting if there are any studies on transit uptake/acceptance just because of that.