law school rankings are dumb

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Like most other recovering prestige addicts, I evaluated where to go to law school primarily based on one thing and one thing only: the U.S. News and World Report (USNWR) law school rankings. The USNWR law school rankings has had legal education in a chokehold for over thirty years now, so it was a shock to everyone when law schools--including Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, and Georgetown--began ceremoniously announcing that they were leaving the rankings (whatever that even means). In this episode, I wonder why a for-profit magazine's rankings has had such power and influence in legal education, dive into the methodology used by the USNWR, and contemplate whether these explosive mic drops from (let's admit it, the top-ranked) law schools will have a lasting impact on the legal industry at all.

[timestamps]
0:00 - intro
1:52 - how we're conditioned to love rankings
12:05 - USNWR history & methodology
17:53 - but will it even matter?

[references]

💕 f o l l o w m e 💞
@cecexie everywhere

🎶 m u s i c 🎵

❓ F A Q s ❓
how old are you? 31 ('91 baby)
which schools did you go to? yale (undergrad) and harvard (law school)
what did you major in? economics
what was your gpa and lsat score? 3.86/176
what sign/MBTI/enneagram are you? aries, ENFJ, 3w4
are you sure you're not a virgo? no part of my star chart is virgo or an earth sign, i swear

Cece Xie

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As a current applicant who spends too much time on LSD and Reddit.. this is video is SUCH a treat 😅

alexryan

I love that you speak fast!
That's what drives me crazy with other podcasts, etc. Because even though you can speed up the podcast on the viewer/listener end: it's not the perfect solution.

gudugudiyan

I took a break studying from the LSAT and watched this. As always, so informative and articulate Cece! at the end, I am shooting for a t-14, because as you mentioned, the metric used to hire is simply that: ranking. My favorite line of all of this though was that "prestige is like a self replicating virus; you can try to escape it but its sheer virailty is the problem." We must face reality as it is; that doesn't mean we cannot strive to enhance it. But like you said, like capitalism, we can't just "escape" it--no matter how hippie we get about it lol

zachfineunplugged

5:59 the number of posts on TLS has decreased and the number of reddit posts has increased in recent years is what I’ve noticed browsing both forums (a little too much)

bensonfang

Lol, definitely feel the obsessiveness. My knee-jerk reaction is to hop on the status page to check whether it shows 'street' or 'st' after hearing about this. Rankings are definitely useful. My biggest problems with the law school game right now is that the value system is so one-dimensional and exclusionary. Business schools have 5 rankings as I recall. There's not much problem with rankings and hierarchy per use. Still, without diverse value and competing ways of ranking schools, the game just become toxic. Oh and just fyi, I read a reddit comment by an alleged ASU Law admission officer that USNews send review sheets to lawyers and judges chosen by each law schools among their alumni. So it probably wouldn't be that much better than reviews by academics.

yutongjoshzhao

Don't know if it's my ADHD but I like that you talk really fast, I can understand everything clearly.

thea

Love these episodes! Very informative! And i honestly prefer the fast speaking

zachcomia

it's more like being prom queen than valedictorian

Keepedia

Love everything on this channel. You, topics being discussed, the vibe, your knowledge and interesting /deep perspective. You are talking perfectly so no need to adjust to a slower speed. Would love to see more contents as Asian females in corporate America. Your perspective on the invisibility and breaking the stereotypes, how to survive and thrive, etc. Followed you since your tiktoks. Came for the law prep content initially and stayed for the wisdom ❤

monroelin

Why is it about rankings and not about alumni base? Isnt that more important than anything??? Especially after graduation.

Lachronix

yo i Love how fast you talk it's one of my fav parts of consuming your content haha

elilangfere

first, loved this podcast ep. 👏🏽 you got me wondering what's next. i do agree that the law school withdrawals don't seem to mean much at the moment. however, my answer to the question of what choice do law schools have except to go with the current ranking system is to consider disruption. it would be impressive if those prestigious institutions that withdrew became early adopters of a new ranking system. others could follow, if they share the same frustrations. seen it happen in other fields. so interested to see how law will respond or if it truly won't matter.

roryroopa

Do you think the law schools that are leaving the USNWR will by 2025 make the LSAT optional as well, and if so how do you think law school admissions will evaluate applications without the LSAT score.

joannaalexander