Christians: Stay Away from the Enneagram! | Ep 999

Today we're joined by Dr. Dale Johnson, executive director of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors and host of the "Truth & Love Podcast," to discuss biblical counseling vs. Christian counseling, differences between counseling men and women, and problems with current "therapy culture." How should people decide whether or not they need counseling? What should parents do about children who struggle with mental health issues? And what does it mean to be mentally and emotionally healthy?

#wellnesswednesday #mentalhealth #biblicalcounseling #alliebethstuckey #relatable #religion #news #politics #christianity #christian #bible #conservative #theology

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Timecodes:

00:00 Introduction
02:02 Biblical counseling vs. Christian counseling
07:22 How to decide if you need counseling
11:17 Differences between counseling men and women
16:38 Problems with therapy culture
22:45 Enneagram & personality tests
28:33 Counseling about sin
33:44 What does it mean to be mentally healthy?
47:04 Social-emotional learning
56:45 Dr. Johnson's definition of the Gospel

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Relevant Episodes:

Ep 963 | The Dangers of Gentle Parenting, SEL, & Empathy | Guest: Abigail Shrier

Ep 611 | How Woke Ideology Has Ruined Therapy | Guest: Dr. Sally Satel

Ep 20 | The Myth of Self Love

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[MaximumWarp]

I’m a counselor who isChristian and have always worked for faith-based practices. I even went to a Christian university to get my counseling education because I know how kookie secular therapists can be. I view what I do as a ministry to this who are hurting and I’m genuinely trying to help people get better. It disturbs me to think Christians might avoid therapy all together simply because of a few bad examples. Before becoming a counselor I was also a pastor and I can tell you pastors don’t get nearly enough counseling training and can do more harm than good sometimes. So, please, if you’re hurting and struggling with a major problem, seek out a counselor who has a good reputation and track record and adheres to ethical practices and Christian principles. We are out there.

[jane]

I always had the teams I managed complete the Myers-Briggs and was proud of the use of the tool to identify our strengths. About a year ago, the Holy Spirit spoke to me about identifying with secular personality designations and reminded me that "we are crucified with Christ" and our identify is in Him. I got rid of all the personality assessment stuff.

[Eds]

I think the only time sometimes I get frustrated with these conversations is we only touch on feeling sad and calling it depression or feeling worried and calling it anxiety. As someone with a loved one with severe schizophrenia, I’d like to hear more biblical discussion on the handling of really difficult mental illness. (I’m not taking away from those that struggle with depression or anxiety.)

[juliamicucci]

Was listening to the introduction and automatically thought about the differences between Biblical and Christian counseling.... Then my old Biblical counseling professor who taught me that pops on the screen! Wonderful professor and my favorite class that had real impact on my daily life. Thank you Dr Johnson!

[Momofukudoodoowindu]

My husband and I saw a pre-marital Christian counselor before we got married. It literally saved our relationship. I thank God for the talented and compassionate brothers and sisters in Christ who see the worst of humanity [every day] and still give God the glory.

[caseyeich]

I am a Licensed Professional Counselor and I am a Christian. I went to seminary to get my degree (Masters in Christian Counseling) because I believe Jesus is the ultimate healer and I wanted a Biblical perspective but there are different options. I pursued licensure, which is regulated by a board and we accept insurance, etc. Many pastors I know studied professional counseling but many other pastors I know studied Biblical counseling. There is a difference and I agree many people do not know that difference but there is a need for both! While the Bible is the most important authority in my life, I would not go to my pastor or someone trained in the Bible, for a medical issue- diabetes, broken foot or to deliver my baby, or even a mental health issues. There is a time and place for both types of counseling. Some adjustment or marital distress, Biblical counseling is probably sufficient and I agree that the local church should be the place that hurting people can go, but even my pastor knows his limits. He will meet with people and often refer them to our office because his knowledge is limited.

[NikkiSchumacherOfficial]

There is a difference between being sad or grumbling at the Lord and actual clinical depression, schizophrenia, or serious mental illness. Outside clinical help is sometimes needed, but since the world is unchristian it is often abused and folks are over medicated- kinda like in the whole medical profession in general. It grieves me to see the church be so ignorant about real mental illness.

[innayasinsky]

Thank you for having him on your podcast! Finding out about biblical counseling and learning more about it really transformed my life. I'm so thankful to be able to deal with my personal problems through a biblical lens. It's honestly been so encouraging to figure out my sin issues that I struggle with and to be able to meditate on Scriptures and see what God's Word says about specific issues. One thing I don't understand is when people view acknowledging our sins as shaming. It's not shameful. It's encouraging and awesome to be aware of our struggles and then to be able to act based on what God's Word says. It gives so much freedom to acknowledge and be aware of our sinful tendencies.

[brandyboyd]

Clinical depression is real. Therapy can help. Medication can help. Doesn’t always help- sometimes they hurt. But they certainly can help. Using modern day science isn’t always bad. He is making it sound like depression is just a bad feeling or low self esteem. Yeah it’s more than that. Dr. Johnson appears very ignorant on true clinical disorders. Biblical counseling I believe would be beneficial for pre/marriage counseling, spiritual warfare, getting out of a rut, etc. Sometimes we need more help. I am certain God has used my clinical depression (controlled by medication secondary to His Word and Himself) to draw me closer to Himself. I’m so thankful for that.

[Angel-cumf]

Allie it'd be great if you had a solid biblically sound Christian Psychologist like Henry Cloud or John Townsend on your show for an integrative perspective

[kstingray]

One thing that wasn't stressed enough and needs to be said is that if you are a Christian, you should belong to a local church, and that should be the first place and the first people you should be going to for help before you start going anywhere else. Sometimes outside help is needed, but God designed the means of your local church to be the primary way that we get wise counsel, discipleship, and healing.

[shelleybrandon]

I’m so very happy to see the stigma of mental health has great changed in just the last 20 years. I had some kind of mental breakdown just over 20 years ago & it was still extremely taboo in the Church & Christian community in general. Brains can malfunction chemically just like any organ can. It took me going to 5 different so called Christian psychologist & psychiatrist to finally find the one who knew how to help me. The story itself is insane.
The psychologist led me to the right psychiatrist both Christian. I’ve had this doctor for over 20 years. I still see him every 6 months or more if needed. I do take medication I’ve had severe anxiety & depression as a child. When I got on the right medication those head to heart light bulbs immediately started popping. I went from “yes I know that” to “knowing it in a whole new way”. The 2 different knows in the Greek. I was a pastors kid & accepted Christ at 10 years old. I never doubted my salvation. I strongly believe I went through that so that I could understand others & help them. Not everyone needs medication, some only a short time. Putting teens on medication is scary. I can’t say if I would have benefited from medication then. I’m definitely thankful for the right medication now.

[iamKam]

You have become one of my favorite podcasts. Thank you for speaking out and having guests on your show that speak out on these topics. It has helped me in my journey as I have stopped taking SSRI's and going down natural routes for my daughter who is on ADHD meds

[AriannePennino-lshl]

Thank you Allie, for shining light!
I’ve been SO blessed by the Association of Certified Biblical Counseling.
♥️

[MADEproductions]

the enneagram has always given me a check in my spirit especially when used in Christian circles. Thanks for addressing this.

[Musingnotes]

My husband is a therapist. He is a Christian, but he is not a “Christian therapist”. He uses researched-backed therapies to help people who desperately need help. Things like CBT, and Exposure response therapy shouldn’t be thought of as “secular”. They are just treatments that help people who have mental afflictions in the same way medical doctors use medicine and other treatments to help people with physical afflictions.

[warcraftaddict]

Dr. Dale! I love the way you mention denying the self and continuing with the verse that it doesn't STOP at the juncture. That it continues with "take up your cross" and "follow Him" (Jesus).

[meganreese]

I think Dr Johnson's premise that "Christian therapy" being a practice of trying to mash together the wisdom of God and the wisdom of man is overly simplistic and misrepresents Christians who practice therapy (that is, licensed therapists and psychiatrists etc. who are Christians). As others in the comebts here have pointed out, would we call the study of neuro-surgery "the wisdom of man" and therefore avoid seeking treatment from a neurologist for migraines or seizures? God has given us an orderly world and minds to understand the patterns He has laid in it. Using that knowledge in conjunction with a solid grasp on biblical knowledge and truth is not trying to meld the wisdom of man and the wisdom of God.

[RageNRedHead]

As a Christian who went to CBT therapy before I was saved, therapists absolutely use some methods that conflict with Christianity. If the therapist is not a Christian themselves would not realize this and could potentially lead a new Christian astray. I am not against therapy but I think us Christians should choose carefully.

[kstingray]

Great topic, great guest, great interview, great questions, answers, and conversation. Great show, Allie!