Is Sumo Cheating?

Today's 10 minute talk was brought to you by the Sika Strength Road to Anywhere backsquat cycle:

[deepat]

Are PEDs cheating?
Just letting you know I watched your video on competing a few months back and signed upfor the belfast marathon. Completed in 5hrs 31 mins on sunday. Sometimes a small nudge is all you need. Thanks gents.

[robertrath]

"Sumo deadlift is cheating" - Clarence Kennedy.

[thepeatboggy]

The issue really is just powerlifting as a whole is based off lifts that aren’t supposed to be “performance” lifts and are tools for training, so get abused as much as possible to get more weight on the bar rather than doing them from their original s&c conceit/technical models

[freakied]

The sumo wasn't nearly as controversial until the deadlift bars came into play, and especially now with the Kabuki bar. More so than even the bio mechanics of the lifters themselves, sumo really takes advantage of the specifications of the new bars. Take it one step further outside of competitions, and the clout lifters are using straps and gripping even more narrow, and really taking advantage of the whip.

[MellonVegan]

The entire debate is interesting to me as someone who started out as a powerlifter 15 years ago. Back then, just RAW was new and no one was talking about sumo being cheating. I first heard people say it (to the point that I remember it being a thing) maybe in 2018. I really think the noodly deadlift bar ultra wide stance thing is the issue. Someone I know sumo deadlifted 300 kg on a weightlifting bar with bumper plates but only got 270 on an Eleiko bar in competition. Now if you compare that to the Kabuki bar...
That's why (to my knowledge) it isn't a big debate in the IPF, unlike the bench thing.

[-Azure.EXE-]

🤓 uh but, I know john rando from bumfuq nowhere and his sumo pull (180kg) is lower than his conventional (185kg), therefore sumo is not cheating🤓

[mrolliepoper]

i have never seen a sumo wrestler deadlift

[budgetlifter]

there is this deadlift only comp once a year in a neighboring city...gonna get sika pull, prep up and compete there next year with my super long orang utan arms doing sumo with 2 cm ROM. Wish me luck.

[leedowner]

I pull sumo

After a year or so of struggling with conventional I switched to sumo and it just feels so much better

My back angle on conventional is literally horizontal, if I drop my hips then my shins are in the way, so move the bar forwards but now I'm off balance

For a while I stopped doing deadlifts completely, now sumo allows me to deadlift again in a way that feels natural

Just my two pence

I'm open to ideas around enforcing a vertical shin angle to prevent ultra wide stances and tiny ROM but as mentioned in the video, many people still prefer conventional and lift more with conventional so I don't think it's a big problem

[ShinSuperSaiyajin]

In here after IPF teased rule changes for Sumo Deadlifts

[IsaacMorgan]

My primary issue with sumo deadlifting is that it just doesn't seem to carry over too much... like sumo pullers still rely very heavily on their conventional pull to drive their sumo up, whereas most of the time its not the other way around. I dont pick up farmers' handles in a sumo stance, I don't clean sumo, I dont walk sumo, I wouldn't do anything sumo aside from sumo... Yes, you can wide stance squat, but that's really only an equipped powerlifting thing and good luck having that work for you without a squat suit.

[decl]

Honestly that's why I no longer like powerlifting, it no longer feels like a contest of pure strength and more who has the most optimised technique.

[makobe]

I think sumo is fine if the ankles are under the knees at the start. It only really begins looking weird if the feet are (much) wider than that.

[radreynolds]

One intersting aspect is that if you make your squat very low bar and with a wide stance, while at the same time doing sumo deadlifts with an upright torso, then you're essentially converging them towards the same trap bar deadlift like motor pattern, and in a full meet you could potentially end up fatiguing the same ranges of motion a lot more. This could explain why anomalies like John Haack pop up who have a very knee dominant squat and hip dominant deadlift.

[jchapman]

Sumo is fine in the same way massive arch and wide grip on Bench. I would advocate for a maximum shin width for Sumo to standardize it much like grip width for bench or Clean & Jerk

[AnthonyGarcia-syyk]

For me sumo deadlift is like a squat PR on a smith machine, you can lie to yourself all you want but we both know is not real 😂😂.

[Jason-gbzl]

Speaking from personal experience, the easiest deadlift isn't allowed in competition which is sumo with straps. I had barely pulled sumo in my life, trained it for 1 week, then pulled 96% of my conventional mixed grip max using sumo with straps. I am totally confident that if I trained that lift I would exceed my conventional max. Seeing videos of guys ego lifting in the gym using sumo with straps is unimpressive to me for this reason.

However I don't think sumo on a stiff bar without straps provides a huge advantage. The noodle bars used it some feds vary too much and do provide an advantage to sumo pullers. Regardless, it's a different lift and I don't think it belongs in competition.

[gabrieliusbalandis]

Funny thing is today there was a post going round about IPF(main powerlifting fed) discussing evaluating sumo technique. It will be the same commitee that changed the bench rules.

[dirtygeazer]

It turns the movement into a squat type movement and bjj is different it's like low reps vs high reps both are good and can build size but no one outright wants to say they train for looks

[PowerliftingbyFred]

This is a very recent debate! Sumo stance has always been permissible, and many of the greats, such as Mike Bridges and Walter Thomas, opted for it. But many other greats, such as Vince Anello and Lamar Gant, opted for conventional, when they could have done sumo. Ed Coan used both stances, as did Tom Eiseman. Read Fred Hatfield’s excellent book on powerlifting—body structure DOES have something to do with it. I’ve set masters American records in USAPL using both sumo and conventional, and can lift basically the same with either stance. I’ve normally opted for sumo because it’s a bit more comfortable for me.