Jesus in Q: What Did The Historical Jesus Teach? | Dr. Dennis MacDonald

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𝕏Twitter: @Jacob56723278

[CliftonHicksbanjo]

This is one of the most useful interviews you've done, and you've done many useful interviews.

[CKNate]

This is one of the few channels where people’s questions/super chats are actually valuable. Great guest, great audience questions, and a great interview. Thanks.

[TheDanEdwards]

Fascinating thing about Christianity: Paul didn't bother with what Jesus taught, or any specific actions he did other than just one. That is, to Paul the only thing that counted about Jesus is that he became a sin offering, a human sacrifice.

[seoigh]

I will say that MacDonald gets some things that most scholars of the period do not. For one, all of these documents are in the context of Roman occupation -- and should be viewed as war-time literature. All actors should be identified as to whether they are pro-Rome or anti-Rome, because on the ground very little else would matter. Also, the sociological stuff MacDonald is talking about is largely misunderstood or not taken into account at all by most. The popularity of John the B and Jesus both show that there is an issue that poor Jews of the time cannot *afford* to observe Torah, and so are seeking alternate means. Think about that, for instance, when parsing through the lines about whether one can eat meat sacrificed to a foreign idol etc -- the poor literally cannot *afford* the markups that the money changers are charging. I don't know exactly what Jesus (or John for that matter) actually taught -- but it *seems* that poorer segments of the Jewish people were at odds with the Roman-collaborating Pharisees. I propose that most people miss why turning over the tables is all the way in the front for John, for instance. Defiance of the Pharisee's enriching themselves via gatekeeping of ritual practice is an important defining characteristic of Jesus for these authors -- "you wealthy Roman collaborators are making piety impossible for the poor." Hence the talk, too, about the eye of a needle and a camel. Jesus' audience is a poor one.

[kengemmer]

“As students and scholars of the New Testament will know, MacDonald almost single-handedly established the discipline of Mimesis Criticism. However, MacDonald's scholarly achievements far exceed his role in establishing that emerging discipline within New Testament studies.MacDonald's scholarship and interests range widely over the entire discipline of Christian origins. His work has striven above all to situate the New Testament within the historical, social and literary contexts of the Greco-Roman world.” Christian Origins and the New Testament in the Greco-Roman Context: Essays in Honor of Dennis R. MacDonald

[quakers]

Loving Jesus, loving, God, loving your neighbors, loving yourself really? Is that what is important in living a good life? One giant world filled with love. Can you imagine? I'd rather not. The right curves in the right places, the sound of a baby crying, watching kittens play, getting an A on your spelling test that certain smoke or drink creates this love sensation. That is the reality of the situation. We are what our hormones, DNA, environment and stories we are told and the stories we tell each other. There is nothing that your spirit, your soul, your self can do about it.

[justsilas]

The thing is, the reverse priority idea sounds like different individuals with different priorities in relating an event. This is what you would expect from different individuals who witness the same event. After my wife and I experience a play or movie, we take away different thoughts that spoke to us. I say Inception speaks to me about the idea that suicide moves us from one simulation of reality to another. My wife strongly disagrees with me. she says it speaks to her about the art of manipulation. Which one of us has a more primitive view of the movie we both experienced? The event isn't simply what happened, but how each one interpreted that event. There is no Q.

[ubjugator]

The Q document is the Gospel according to the Hebrews.
It's so obvious.
An analysis of the quotations of the document from the church fathers shows it was closer to Luke than Matthew.

[eximusic]

Jacob: what sayings in Q did Jesus actually say? OK then, what acts of Jesus in Q actually happened? Dennis: not biting

[exoplanet]

Excellent discussion. One question: 6:00 Is MacDonald saying that the "woman taken in adultery" story is from Q? Wouldn't that make it very early. I thought this story was a late addition.

[anthonycostine]

Rather than hypothesizing a Q document why not just accept the fact that Luke and Matthew simply made up extra fictional material to embellish Mark's already largely fictional story?

[stefanslater]

I think Mark Bilby is spot on: the gospels are composite documents, textually interdependent, composed over time. His case for Qn (new Q) is less convincing. Bilby argues, compellingly, that Lk1 (an early version of Luke, also known as Marcion's Evangelium) was based on Qn and a Markan proto-gospel (Mk1). In turn, the latter used Qn as a source. Which all sounds a bit circular, especially as Bilby fails to distinguish between the voice of Qn and Lk1.
Stripping out the so-called Qn passages from Mk1 reveals an earlier composition layer, centred on the miracle stories up to verse 6.45. This incipient version of Mark was the foundation of Lk1; what Bilby terms Mk1 flowed from the author's familiarity with the Evangelium.
Layered composition explains why bits of Luke appear more primitive than Matthew, and vice versa. This model, based on Markan priority, also unravels the mystery of so-called 'reverse priority'. But there's no need for Q.

[theemptycross]

I don't understand why a biblical scholar would say "our Gospels" instead of "the canonical Gospels"

[jonstaley-qp]

He literally came in his father name, "Out of Egypt I called my Hebrew Pharaoh Son Simon""Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his Hebrew name, and what is his Son's name if thou canst tell?" For then will I turn to my hebrew people a pure language, that they may all call upon me to serve with one consent, Therefore my people shall know my name, Therefore in that day they shall know that it is I YAHUAH who speak, It is I, And at that time YAHUSHA answered and said I thank thee O father master of heaven and earth, Because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed those things to little babes, and he said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the hebrew kingdom of heaven. As it is written in Isaiah YASHAYAHU the prophet, 'Behold, I send my messenger Gabriel ahead of you and will prepare your way the voice of one crying in the wilderness the baptist YAHUCHANAN prepare ye the way of YAHUAH make strait a highway in the desert for our ALAHYM, I come in my father name and ye received me not, If nother one comes in his Greek name Jesus thessalonians 2 him ye will receive after working of Semjaza Satan, He came in his father name and was rejected, Yet the false name of Jesus which the disciples never ever knew was received all over the world just like the Egyptian Hebrew Messiah Prophesied, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be delivered, That Hebrew name is YAHUSHA, And on that great judgment day when they will say unto ABBA ABBA Father YAHUAH did we not preach in your church and cast out demons in your Son Jesus name and He will turn to them and say unto them Depart from me and my little hebrew lamb book of life.

[slicktrickyes]

My complete cracked out theory on the Life of Jesus

Jesus had a family.

Jesus the Christ was the spiritual Divine twinned to the physical man Judas Thomas "The Twin" and Judas Thomas' father was Judas of Galilee.

Judas of Galilee was executed after leading a tax revolt against Rome in 6CE (Josephus), the exact same time a 12 yr old Jesus/Judas disappears for 17+ years before returning to begin his ministry.

Judas of Galilee was heir to the Davidic line (Josephus), on his death his oldest son Jesus/Judas would have been heir aka King of the Jews, the real reason behind Jesus' crucifixion.

Judas of Galilee had two sons executed in 46CE by the Romans (Josephus), named James & Simon, same as the named brothers of Jesus in the New Testament Gospels. 

Judas of Galilee was the founder of the Fourth Philosophy (Josephus), often associated with the Zealots movement, Simon the Zealot was a brother of Jesus according to the New Testament.

Menahem ben Judah is claimed by some scholars to be a son of Judas of Galilee but the math doesn't work as Menahem was present in the Jewish conflicts of 66-70CE, other scholars note he was likely a grandson of Judas of Galilee meaning Judas of Galilee had a third son named Judas, Judah ben Judah, aka Jesus.

Jesus having a son named Menahem = Family 💯

**INTERMISSION**

Rewind the tape to the beginning of Jesus' ministry... on his return from a 17+ year absence studying eastern religions in India, Jesus/Judas rejects the violent revolutionary ways of his earthly father & brothers, preaching a path of radical non-violent resistance to his followers.  My cracked out theory on Jesus/Judas continues from there...

Jesus performed no miracles, no resurrections, prophesied nothing, no revelations, not even rapture, But he could read and write & the Bible holds the receipts.

I find it odd that many of our trusted Christian church leaders, both true blue & lipstick varieties, are quick to gloss over Christ’s literacy or even assert Christ’s illiteracy while simultaneously attributing all sorts of magical nonsense to his name.  How you gonna elevate this guy to god-tier status, yet preach he can’t read? Of course God reads, reads great! writes great too! Jesus according to Christians is the real deal, the whole Enchilada, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha & the Omega, yet also according to them he can’t write Alpha or Omega. That’s crazy thinking, blasphemy even, all the best stuff in the Bible was written by Jesus.

Receipts?

Jesus Christ (Didymus Judas Thomas) authored The Gospel of Thomas.

Read here the opening lines of The Gospel of Thomas (Leloup Translation)…

“These are the words of the Secret. They were revealed by the Living Yeshua. Didymus Judas Thomas wrote them down.”

Note the unusual doubling of the Twin generic descriptor, sandwiching the common Judas name.

Didymus = Twin (Greek) Judas = Name Thomas = Twin (Aramaic)

Judas, according to the Bible, was a brother & devoted servant of Jesus Christ (Mark 6:3; Matt 13:55; Jude 1). His twin (Acts of Thomas). The spiritual (divine) Christ paired to the physical (human) Judas. Jesus WAS Judas. In the Gospel of Thomas there were no miracles, no resurrections. Jesus predicted no future events, he was no prophet, no revelations or rapture. All prophesy attributed (falsely) to Jesus was culled from the Hebrew OT and retrofitted as Roman propaganda to co-opt, conflate & corrupt Judaism w/ the upstart Jesus’ movement, neatly consolidating control of both under Rome, effectively killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

So how then did Jesus know Judas would betray him? Simple, he (Jesus/Judas) turned himself in & cut a deal with Pilate to fake crucifixion avoiding further unrest in the Jewish population (exactly what you would hope for & expect from a Jesus). The deal was after the crucifix fake-out Jesus would bounce & so he did becoming St.Thomas/St.Jude traveling far & wide, converting about a billion more ppl to Christianity before dying in his 100s.

A few additional odds & ends that support this info above (greatly abridged for time).

◇ While the two written accounts we have of Judas’ death following his “betrayal” of Jesus in the New Testament differ greatly, on one point they both agree Judas died simultaneous with Jesus dying on the cross.

◇ NT Jude 1:1 identifying Judas as a brother to James but a “servant” of Jesus.

◇ The apocryphal Gospel of Barnabas (apostle of Jesus), Ch. 216 - Judas takes on appearance of Jesus, later crucified in Jesus’ place.

◇ St. Jude is most often depicted wearing a giant medallion around his neck with the life-sized head of Jesus on it (google it), that’s 2000 yrs before modern rappers made this a thing & fashionable.  They literally got Jude walking around, spreading Christ’s word “wearing the face of Jesus”.  The truth hidden in plain sight.

◇ Judas of Galilee (google him) was the father of Jesus/Judas, Judah ben Judah. Jesus/Judas was the father of Menahem, Menahem ben Judah.

◇ In sharp contrast to the synoptic Gospels’ liberal use of the sayings in Thomas’ Gospel, chopping them up and sprinkling them about freely, The Gospel of John contains far fewer examples of overlapping content with The Gospel of Thomas. This drop off due to the fact of John being authored in direct opposition to Thomas. A point by point takedown and smear campaign (e.g., “Doubting Thomas”, Faith trumps Knowledge) targeting Thomas to discredit and flush out the remaining followers of early Christ movements, movements still having legs and remaining popular despite the introduction and heavy promotion of the 3 synoptic Gospels being widely disseminated across all Roman territories. John’s underlying agenda accounts for the dramatic shift in tone, structure & narrative, making a clean break from messaging of synoptic Gospels. John was a hit piece against early Christians/Gnostics, Rome couldn’t just steal it, they had to kill it.


I'm certainly 100% wrong on all this, sweet Jesus Im using OSHO to bolster my argument, dead scholars are spinning in their graves, but YOLO 🎉

[alanroddis]

l think Dr. Robyn Faith Walsh gets it right when she says the Gospels are Greco-Roman literature and so does Henry Davis when he says the Gospels are just satire, sorry Dr. MacDonald.

[iwilldi]

The story of the centurion in Matthew is 100% Matthew's spinoff from Mark's paralytic. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Q (in case you thought so) . At most you can claim that Matthew stuck a special idea into it.
a) the centurion story contains a paralyzed servant.
b) there is a roof (literally) in the centurion story, while in Mark's and Luke's story of the paralyzed the roof is a core item,

c) the centurion is the roman item while the grabatus is the roman item in Mark's story of the paralytic.
d) while in Mark the paralytic is called son by Jesus, Matthew's centurion has a son to be healed.
e) The remote relationship is expressed in the centurion story being a remote healing while in the paralytic a man is brought on a cline or grabatus
f) The centurion follows the leper story in Matthew while in Mark the leper is followd by the paralytic.
g) Matthew removes the roof in the paralytic, and supplies a cline instead of the grabatus in his paralytic story which he moved down the line. So indeed Mattew's paralytic is now remote, while we have a remote healing of the centurion.

So we have a case where Mark who allways shows his distaste for roman culture by his latinisms has been perverted by Matthew, who tries to reverse the same. But this tendency of Matthew has nothing to do with Q. In fact the centurion is a case against Q.

But why does Matthew so oppose Mark's paralytic?
- Because the word paralytic occurs fist in the Cain story,
- because the paralytic reanacts an Cain and Abel story,
- because Cain and Abel are both ben Adams, while Mark's Jesus uses the Son of Man for the first time,
- because Jesus calls John son,
- because it is about forgiveness,
- and because Jesus reverses the order,
- and because the roof and the son show the paralytic as the reaction to jesus baptism, so we have an authority dichotomy on earth versus in water. So there is simply too much of Mark implicating Jesus in the death of John.

[williambranch]

Thomas clearly shows pre-Gospel material, but all of them are in Greek anyway.

[slicktrickyes]

Thomas > Marcion > Canonical Gospels ... The problem with Q is there ain't no Q, Q+, or none of that nonsense.

[frankkhethanidubedube]

Ho guys, just quick one, who was Joshua? Why i ask this, I see that Joshua and Jesus is one name, so the creators or authors got this horrible wrong to liken Jesus son of Joseph as new Moses.. my understanding Joshua which means on English Jesus was the new Moses in hebrew Bible.. Moses was not talking about Jesus son of Joseph .. so here is a challenge Joshua is the one who took the leadership role when Moses died..